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Thread: Rethinking Policing

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    Quote Originally Posted by cajunrevenge View Post
    Which side wants to throw money at policing?
    Throwing money at the disadvantaged minorities. It hasn’t solved the societal issues yet. More money won’t change that.

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    FFF - BB, BB, 2B, HR, 2B, HR, 1B, BB, BB, 1B, BB, BB, HR

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    By Timothy Egan
    Contributing Opinion Writer

    April 16, 2021, 5:00 a.m. ET

    I was driving around the other day when I realized that the license tabs on my car had expired. I didn’t panic, because I didn’t have to. If the cops pulled me over, I could feel assured as a white male: My life would not be in danger.

    It was expired registration tags that led the police to pull over Daunte Wright, the young Black man killed by Officer Kim Potter in suburban Minneapolis this month. (It has been described by local authorities as a deadly accident, although his family finds that implausible.) And it was temporary license plates that prompted a chain of events that ended with police in rural Virginia pepper-spraying Caron Nazario, a second lieutenant in the U.S. Army Medical Corps, who is Black and Latino.

    “I’m actively serving this country, and this is how you’re going to treat me?” Lieutenant Nazario told the officers. Race is the only explanation for this loathsome assault. The blue wall of silence, the code that calls on cops to protect one another against charges of brutality and criminality, compounded the attack: The two officers filed “near identical” misstatements about what happened, according to a lawsuit filed by Lieutenant Nazario.

    Cops protect the state. They also are the state. We revere them for the first part. We fear them for the second. But even as we condemn another round of horrific and excessive state violence directed at Black Americans, there’s actually a ray of hope on the police reform blotter.



    The blue wall may be starting to crack. It was broken in the Derek Chauvin trial.

    It’s no small thing that several Minneapolis police officers, including Chief Medaria Arradondo, took the stand against Mr. Chauvin in his trial over the death of George Floyd. Fourteen officers in the same department signed an open letter last year saying Mr. Chauvin “failed as a human and stripped George Floyd of his dignity and life.”

    Maybe these acts of courage are isolated — mere dents in a wall that is institutional and pervasive. It will take far more than a few cops in a nation-shattering case of racist murder-by-authority to do structural damage to that edifice.

    Cops protecting bad cops is ingrained in the system. Many officers feel that only a brother or sister in blue knows the peril they face — and has their backs. That’s true to an extent. But people in far more dangerous lines of work certainly don’t share this attitude. Too many police officers act as if being the face of the law makes them above the law.

    Some years ago, I wrote a book called “Breaking Blue,” about what had been called the oldest actively investigated homicide case in the United States. It involved a killing in 1935, and a powerful cop running a fencing scheme was suspected of the crime. Three generations of police officers protected the accused in uniform. When Anthony Bamonte, a sheriff in eastern Washington State, finally appeared to solve the crime in 1989, he ran into fresh resistance from the inside.

    “You never badmouth a brother,” a former police officer wrote him in a threatening letter. Even in a half-century-old murder case, the blue bond was stronger than the law.



    Smashing the blue wall is one thing that has to happen to fix the lethal flaws in modern law enforcement. Another will be just as hard, if not more so: acknowledging that racism, like the code of silence, runs deep in police ranks.

    Defunding the police is not the answer. It’s an absurd idea. A wave of violence and chaos quickly overwhelmed an area declared police-free in Seattle, where I live, last summer. Among the victims were several people of color. “Two African-American men are dead,” said the city’s police chief, Carmen Best, at the time, “at a place where they claim to be working for Black Lives Matter.”

    “Defund the police” is even worse as a political slogan; the idea is supported by only 18 percent of Americans, according to one poll from last month. Politically, all the slogan will do is hurt the cause of reform, as it appeared to drag down Democrats in last year’s congressional elections.

    Reinventing the police, a far better idea, got a start in New Orleans in 2016, with a program that teaches officers to intervene when they see fellow officers doing something bad. It’s about to get another go in Maryland, now that lawmakers just overrode a veto and passed sweeping police reform legislation.

    We need every cop to wear a body camera. We need to curb the power of police unions, the biggest protectors of the blue wall. And we need officers of all stripes to back the words of those 14 in Minneapolis. They said, “This is not who we are.” Now prove it.
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

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    ACLU
    @ACLU
    · 30m

    BREAKING: Derek Chauvin has been convicted of the murder of George Floyd.

    For the first time in Minnesota state history, a white police officer has been held accountable for killing a Black man.
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

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    "We Need a Vision That Says There’s Going to Be Accountability

    I would not call today's verdict justice, however, because justice
    implies true restoration. But it is accountability, which is the
    first step toward justice."

    - Mn Atty Gen. Keith Ellison
    Last edited by 57Brave; 04-20-2021 at 05:04 PM.
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

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    Mikel Jollett
    @Mikel_Jollett
    ·
    27m
    Remember: none of Chauvin’s colleagues turned him in.

    He murdered a man in broad daylight and we are here today

    because a brave Black girl named Darnella Frazier kept taping

    despite threats from the cops on the scene.


    what a chilling sentence. Man, this has to change
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    Yeah yeah mr "we've been stripping anything resembling social welfare for decades" super smart guy
    yes, that's another conversation where you said a bunch of nonresponsive stuff, I suppose I should award points for pattern recognition at least.

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    As many of you know policing is my area of expertise. I have spent thousands of hours studying policing in the last 100 years of US history. I could write a book on it at this point. So let me explain why there wont be any real solutions to policing. Its because both sides are extremely dishonest about the issue. The left pushes the narrative that police killings of black people is an epidemic and the situation is really bad. Really its better now than it has ever been for black people with police. That doesnt make it perfect by a long shot but if you cant admit this basic fact you are part of the problem imo. The left would do well to talk about all unjustified police shootings rather than just black people. Yes black people get it disproportionately but this isnt the oppression Olympics. Its wrong when it happens to anyone of any color. Instead of trying to teach young black kids how to appropriately handle police encounters they fill their heads with fear that becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. The rights dishonesty comes in pretending there isnt a problem, that police officers are inherently honest, and labeling people who simply want the cops to not violate peoples constitutional rights as anti-cop. Republicans who like to talk up how much they love the constitution complain that if we only let cops do what is constitutional they cant keep us safe. The odds of a cop being shot and killed by a black person is much lower than the chances of a cop shooting and killing a black person yet its considered reasonable for cops to fear for their lives but irrational for black people to fear for their lives.




    This doesnt have to be a one sided issue. There are solutions that work for both sides. I will get into the solutions in other posts so as to not make one giant post. The two biggest hurdles imo are that cops are more interested in authority and their pay than they are safe working conditions. The other issue is that there are too many violent criminals that resulted from that broken system. We can fix the system but that doesnt fix the people who are already broken. It took 50 years to get to this point so nothing will fix it overnight.
    "Donald Trump will serve a second term as president of the United States.

    It’s over."


    Little Thethe Nov 19, 2020.

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    I cant really go on to solutions without going fully over the problems. Here is a video that illustrates both sides of what I was talking about in the above post. This sheriff calls 911 on the guy delivering newspapers. The driver is black and the Sheriff starts to follow him after seeing him deliver newspapers to his house and neighbors. The black guy gets out of is car and goes up to the Sheriff in his car and asks why he is following him. The Sheriff calls 911 and says the guy threatened his life. 40 cops show up over a report that the Sheriff was being threatened. The Sheriff admits when the cops come that it was a lie. The sheriff also made a lot of speculatory claims about what the guy was doing that was him talking out his ass. So the cops show up and treat the black guy like a criminal. He is detained, made to get out of his car, he and his car is searched. The cops treat him like he is an asshole for being upset about what going on. He just wants to finish his job and go home. Once police determine he did nothing wrong they just want to end it there. But the driver has been victimized here. Cops dont see these types of interactions as a big deal. As the victim states this is the second time this has happened to him. And both times nothing happens to the false accuser. The Sheriff in my opinion was a classic case of learned racism from his job. He deals with ****ty black people as part of his job and it subconsciously made him suspicious of this guy largely because he was black. We supposedly have all these rights against freedom to travel unmolested or freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures but that all goes out the window if someone calls 911 and says you are suspicious. Being suspicious isnt in itself a crime. It cant be. But cops absolutely love this because any call you make about a person gives them the right to detain, search, identify, and run warrant checks. They dont care if the reason was BS or not they want every opportunity to search and detain people. They view that as their most effective crime fighting technique. Now if you make a false accusation call about a cop you can bet your ass is getting charges. Cops argue and judges agree that it would be just too hard for cops to keep us safe if we ask them to follow the constitution. To me, you either believe in the rights of the constitution or you dont. There is no in between. Would asking the cops to do the job right result in more crime? Probably, but thats a result of the heavy handed policing of unjust laws like the war on drugs has had consequences that cant be fixed by simply stopping. It doesnt undo the damage a person suffered from incarceration. It doesnt give a kid a dad growing up because 20 years later we stopped the war on drugs or heavy handed policing.
    Last edited by cajunrevenge; 05-05-2021 at 12:50 AM.
    "Donald Trump will serve a second term as president of the United States.

    It’s over."


    Little Thethe Nov 19, 2020.

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    https://www.pennlive.com/news/2021/0...searches.html?




    Heres an article about how cops use traffic stops as fishing expeditions for crimes. There isbloterally nothing you can do to stop a cop from pulling you over and searching your vehicle if he wants to. Being too calm is an excuse to search you. Driving "too lawfully" can and has been used as an excuse to pull over a car. Literally nothing. All cops need is the perception that you comitted a traffic violation. So if they make a false claim they can just say they were mistaken with no consequences for wrongfully violating you. What this amounts to is a license to pull over and search anyone and everyone. That's not how a free country works. I dont care how much "safer" they claim that makes it. This fits into the conversation about systemic racisim. What is it? Cops saturate poor areas and in the course of doing all these fishing expeditions they arrest a lot of people who otherwise are law abiding citizens and good people. A white kid in a good area doesnt run the risk of police encounters where they might find a joint. A lot of people smoke and move on later in life without ever going through arrests. Even a black kid in a good area is far more likely to have police encounters just because he sticks out. You can blame these kids for smoking a joint or whatever but the point is white kids are far less likely to face arrest for the same **** and many go on to be highly productive people largely because they never faced those consequences. That is systemic racisim.
    "Donald Trump will serve a second term as president of the United States.

    It’s over."


    Little Thethe Nov 19, 2020.

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    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...victims-report



    Here is a goodnarricle detailing LAPD terrorising families of people they shot and killed. Imagine a dead cis family being treated like this. But who are the families to complain to? The LAPD? The FBI? They don't care. These arent workplace violations these are abuses of authority to terrorize people. These are crimes. We need proactive investigations. Imbued an undercover agent with the next family that has someone shot and killed by police and catch AND arrest them while in the act. Cops do this stuff because they know they can get away with it.
    "Donald Trump will serve a second term as president of the United States.

    It’s over."


    Little Thethe Nov 19, 2020.

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    https://nypost.com/2021/05/11/new-we...rce=reddit.com



    Here is another good example of the problems with policing. NYPD says because they cant search a car based on marijuana smell and because they can be sued for illegally searching people they found less guns and this shootings are up. What they are admitting is that marijuana prohibition is about them having an excuse to search people. I havent read it lately but I dont think the constitution has an exception for law enforcement to violate peoples rights because it would make their job too hard to do otherwise. By their logic if we had a checkpoint every 10 miles where they searched every car they would recover all the guns and there would be a lot less shootings.



    The union sent a letter to their cops telling them to not do anything illegal because they lost qualified immunity. That's the first step towards fixing policing. Now we need this nationwide.
    "Donald Trump will serve a second term as president of the United States.

    It’s over."


    Little Thethe Nov 19, 2020.

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    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cajunrevenge View Post
    https://nypost.com/2021/05/11/new-we...rce=reddit.com



    Here is another good example of the problems with policing. NYPD says because they cant search a car based on marijuana smell and because they can be sued for illegally searching people they found less guns and this shootings are up. What they are admitting is that marijuana prohibition is about them having an excuse to search people. I havent read it lately but I dont think the constitution has an exception for law enforcement to violate peoples rights because it would make their job too hard to do otherwise. By their logic if we had a checkpoint every 10 miles where they searched every car they would recover all the guns and there would be a lot less shootings.



    The union sent a letter to their cops telling them to not do anything illegal because they lost qualified immunity. That's the first step towards fixing policing. Now we need this nationwide.
    Michigan v. Sitz. This is one of the SCOTUS cases I have a big problem with. The case was about Michigan's DUI checkpoint program. The plaintiff argued that roadblocks checking for drunk drivers with no reasonable suspicion violated the 4th amendment. The SCOTUS basically said that the benefits of such roadblocks are large while it's only a small violation of the individual's rights so they let it stand. Terrible, terrible decision.

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    Go get him!

    Founding member of the Whiny Little Bitches and Pricks Club

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    Billy Bob appreciates the police. Be like Billy Bob.


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    Heres a real simple way to put it for you. I want cops focusing on "crimes" that have a victim or potential victim. Like shooting people. That has victims. Focus more on that and a lot less time on crimes that hurt no one. Fact is the clearance rate on violent crime for police departments has nose dived since the war on drugs started.
    "Donald Trump will serve a second term as president of the United States.

    It’s over."


    Little Thethe Nov 19, 2020.

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    Dylan Park
    @dyllyp

    Denver’s STAR program has been dispatched over 2,000 times for mental

    health emergencies and hasn’t needed police backup once.

    It’s almost like treating folks who are in distress with kindness

    instead of treating them like criminals works.



    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

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    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
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    another interesting thread to browse through
    "I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."

    "I am your retribution."

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    Quote Originally Posted by 57Brave View Post
    Dylan Park
    @dyllyp

    Denver’s STAR program has been dispatched over 2,000 times for mental

    health emergencies and hasn’t needed police backup once.

    It’s almost like treating folks who are in distress with kindness

    instead of treating them like criminals works.




    This is such a good program. As I have said before, often times there isnt a problem until a cop shows up. A person can be acting erratically but not committing crimes. A cop shows up and the person having a mental health crisis haa little or no ability to immediately follow orders. The cop comes along and escalates the situation. Once they escalate to violence the person REALLY starts not cooperating and the cop again escalates to violence. Then the person really starts to resist so the cop escalates the violence even more. Then they charge the person with a violent crime like assaulting the officer. Throw them in prison where their mental illness gets worse. Release them on the streets even crazier than before. Vicious cycle.



    But all these programs mean less money for cops. So you wont see them supporting this for the most part.
    Last edited by cajunrevenge; 03-23-2022 at 11:45 AM.
    "Donald Trump will serve a second term as president of the United States.

    It’s over."


    Little Thethe Nov 19, 2020.

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