Results 1 to 20 of 72

Thread: Debate of the Week, who is on your HOF Ballot

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    DANGERZONE
    Posts
    24,741
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,432
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,440
    Thanked in
    2,469 Posts

    Debate of the Week, who is on your HOF Ballot

    Obviously none or almost none of us have a say, but who would be your up to 10 guys?

    For me I'd go

    Maddux (whoever the schmuck is that doesn't vote for him because "so and so didn't get 100%" should be shot out of a cannon into the nearest landfill)
    Bagwell (crime he hasn't gotten in yet)
    Bonds
    Clemens
    Schilling
    Mussina
    Glavine
    Thomas
    Walker
    Trammell

    I could really stop at 8, but it would be a shame for Walker and Trammell to drop off. Of course some fools will have Jack Morris on their ballot, and that will ruin the chances of someone who should be in. Need to get some guys in this year, or things will start log jamming really bad. Next year you have Smoltz, Pedro, and RJ going on the ballot, year after that Griffey and Edmonds, year after that Manny, Pudge, and Vlad, year after that Chipper, Thome, Rolen, and Druw. Year after that Mo and Doc (borderline) and maybe some more. There's a big log jam coming after years of weak ballots not inducting anyone last year is likely to hurt the Hall voting process next year and make some veterans committees do a lot of work.
    Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg

  2. #2
    Co-Owner, BravesCenter
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    10,516
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4,345
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4,305
    Thanked in
    2,446 Posts
    Good list, glad to see Bonds on it. I'm really torn on Schilling/Mussina -- both of whom were dominant at times and basically have the numbers to back it up ... but neither screams 'Hall of Fame' to me in terms of pure pedigree. I'd drop one and add Piazza.

  3. #3
    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    DANGERZONE
    Posts
    24,741
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,432
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,440
    Thanked in
    2,469 Posts
    Schilling and Mussina are HOF players, 26th and 24th respectively alltime in rWAR.
    Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg

  4. #4
    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    47,593
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,704
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    11,390
    Thanked in
    7,539 Posts
    Don't see the PED-tainted group getting in any time soon. Bonds, Clemens, Bagwell, Piazza, Pudge, Manny, McGwire, Sosa. Rumors about Biggio might keep him waiting as well.

    The inner circle HOF types get in their first year of eligibility. That group would include Maddux, Griffey, Pedro, Randy Johnson, Mariano Rivera and Chipper.

    Past voting patterns suggest that some very good candidates will not get in their first year, but should get in soon after. That group would include Glavine, Smoltz, Frank Thomas, Schilling.

    It is pretty unusual to get more than two players inducted per year (not counting the guys who get voted in by the veterans committee). I think this means a large number of pretty strong candidates are going to be waiting a while or maybe not getting in at all.

  5. #5
    Sabermetric Slut
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Your Mom's Basement
    Posts
    29,859
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,728
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    8,776
    Thanked in
    5,863 Posts
    Thomas should be inducted this year. He is a top 20 hitter all-time. Sadly I think he does wait one year as voters are dumb and likely don't remember just how good he was.

  6. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to thewupk For This Useful Post:

    AUTiger7222 (01-05-2014), jpx7 (01-03-2014), Julio3000 (01-03-2014)

  7. #6
    Not Actually Brian Hunter Metaphysicist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    2,641
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,547
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,645
    Thanked in
    878 Posts
    Guys I'd put in:

    1. Maddux
    2. Glavine
    3. Thomas
    4. Piazza
    5. Bagwell
    6. Trammell
    7. Biggio
    8. Walker
    9. McGriff (for his HOFcaliber endorsement career)
    10. Raines

    and I'd scribble these guys at the bottom:

    Schilling
    Mussina
    Bonds
    Clemens
    McGwire
    S. Sosa
    R. Palmeiro

    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    Don't see the PED-tainted group getting in any time soon. Bonds, Clemens, Bagwell, Piazza, Pudge, Manny, McGwire, Sosa. Rumors about Biggio might keep him waiting as well.

    The inner circle HOF types get in their first year of eligibility. That group would include Maddux, Griffey, Pedro, Randy Johnson, Mariano Rivera and Chipper.

    Past voting patterns suggest that some very good candidates will not get in their first year, but should get in soon after. That group would include Glavine, Smoltz, Frank Thomas, Schilling.

    It is pretty unusual to get more than two players inducted per year (not counting the guys who get voted in by the veterans committee). I think this means a large number of pretty strong candidates are going to be waiting a while or maybe not getting in at all.
    You can see the probabilities based on disclosed ballots here: (link). It was fairly accurate last year.

    Bagwell, Biggio, and Piazza aren't really PED-tainted, except by the extremely intellectually lazy. They are getting dinged by some, but they'll all go in pretty soon. Biggio probably gets in this year, and maybe Piazza too. Bagwell is already on 2/3 of the ballots, and the number almost always go up over time, so he's sitting pretty as well. Here's the current projections from that link:

    Updated: Jan.3 - 12:15 ~ 107 Full Ballots ~ (18.8% of vote ~ based on last year)

    100 - Maddux
    97.2 - Glavine
    90.7 - F. Thomas
    80.4 - Biggio
    ———————————
    72.9 - Piazza
    66.4 - Bagwell
    60.7 - Jack (The Jack) Morris
    56.1 - Raines
    45.8 - Bonds
    44.9 - Clemens
    39.3 - Schilling
    34.9 - Mussina
    22.4 - Trammell
    20.6 - E. Martinez
    18.7 - L. Smith
    15.0 - McGriff
    14.0 - Kent
    11.2 - L. Walker
    10.3 - McGwire
    8.4 - S. Sosa
    7.5 - R. Palmeiro
    ———————————
    4.7 - Mattingly
    0.9 - P. Rose (Write-In)

  8. #7
    Sabermetric Slut
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Your Mom's Basement
    Posts
    29,859
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,728
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    8,776
    Thanked in
    5,863 Posts
    That Thomas vote surprises me but well deserving.

  9. #8
    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    47,593
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,704
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    11,390
    Thanked in
    7,539 Posts
    Interesting data. I would venture a guess that those who publish their ballots are not an entirely representative group. They seem to be more "inclusive" than the overall electorate. Those not publishing their ballots probably have fewer names on theirs.

    The tendency over the years has been that when you have some strong first-year candidates the vote totals of those who were on the ballot the previous year tends to get depressed.

  10. #9
    "What is a clvclv"
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Nebo, NC
    Posts
    9,634
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    5,354
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,340
    Thanked in
    1,628 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphysicist View Post
    Guys I'd put in:

    1. Maddux
    2. Glavine
    3. Thomas

    4. Piazza
    5. Bagwell
    6. Trammell
    7. Biggio
    8. Walker
    9. McGriff (for his HOFcaliber endorsement career)
    10. Raines

    and I'd scribble these guys at the bottom:

    Schilling
    Mussina
    Bonds
    Clemens
    McGwire
    S. Sosa
    R. Palmeiro


    Personally think those four should be locks, and can't imagine I'd argue with another name Alex listed (except I'd write in Rose as my #10).
    Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...

    Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?

  11. #10
    Co-Owner, BravesCenter
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    10,516
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4,345
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4,305
    Thanked in
    2,446 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by zitothebrave View Post
    Schilling and Mussina are HOF players, 26th and 24th respectively alltime in rWAR.
    That doesn't mean anything to me (or about 95% of the BBWAA).

    Edit: In other words, give me more than that.
    Last edited by Hawk; 01-03-2014 at 10:05 AM.

  12. #11
    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    DANGERZONE
    Posts
    24,741
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,432
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,440
    Thanked in
    2,469 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    That doesn't mean anything to me (or about 95% of the BBWAA).

    Edit: In other words, give me more than that.
    Poop on you and your BBWAA

    Mussina won 270 games which is high for the modern era. And had a 3.68 ERA pitching in the AL East during the Roid years. Only thing holding him back is that he never won an award aside from the GOld GLove, 5 time AS though.

    Schilling I think is easier to argue in in many ways. His wins are lagging, but he pitched in Philly when they were miserable. And to boot didn't become a starter til he was 25 (Baltimore and Houston used him as a reliever) Desptie that he posted a very good 3.46 ERA in the roid era. He had over 3000 Ks under 800BB. Making him number 2 all time in K/BB. Even higher than Pedro.
    Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to zitothebrave For This Useful Post:

    Hawk (01-03-2014), jpx7 (01-03-2014)

  14. #12
    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    47,593
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,704
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    11,390
    Thanked in
    7,539 Posts
    The voters also tend to focus more on career peaks (five or six year period) than career numbers. Rightfully so imo. Sandy Koufax was a greater pitcher than say Don Sutton, regardless of career wins or other career stats. Pedro Martinez was better than Glavine. Schilling was better than Morris or Mussina. Heck I'd say Schilling was better than Glavine and more deserving of HOF inclusion..

Similar Threads

  1. Hall of Fame Ballot Reveals nears 44 percent
    By rico43 in forum 2024: The Campaign to Re-Elect Snit for Four More Years and Make Atlanta Great Again!
    Replies: 61
    Last Post: 01-22-2018, 09:52 AM
  2. Submit Your Hall of Fame Ballot here
    By rico43 in forum 2024: The Campaign to Re-Elect Snit for Four More Years and Make Atlanta Great Again!
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 11-29-2017, 11:33 AM
  3. 2017 Hall of Fame Ballot
    By zitothebrave in forum 2024: The Campaign to Re-Elect Snit for Four More Years and Make Atlanta Great Again!
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 11-23-2016, 04:18 PM
  4. 2015 HALL of FAME ballot
    By rico43 in forum 2024: The Campaign to Re-Elect Snit for Four More Years and Make Atlanta Great Again!
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 07-29-2014, 09:14 AM
  5. CrimsonCowboy's All-Star Ballot
    By CrimsonCowboy in forum 2024: The Campaign to Re-Elect Snit for Four More Years and Make Atlanta Great Again!
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-21-2014, 10:41 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •