Are we cursed as an organization and fans?

[Gary82]

There's a part of me that dyed when Jermaine got traded.

It took me wayyyy too long to get that. Ugh.

[CyYoung31]

I plum tuckered myself out lol'ing at that.

Low hanging fruit et al.

[Julio3000]

Low hanging fruit et al.

Well, that trade did net us a pear of lemons.

[Knucksie]

Don't mind some cherry-picking.

I posted on scouts forum years ago, like 10 years ago, but was banned

Under what user name did you post under? This handle doesn't ring any bells. Kind of a surprise that Bill went to that extreme. The current regime is another story...

primarily because I disagreed big time with Shanks on a number of things, mostly minor league player evaluation.

He took too much of a rose-colored glasses approach. Every Braves prospect had to be considered great, especially if said prospect was from Georgia and grew up a Braves fan.

Are we cursed?

That's getting too much like Cubs territory and the way Red Sox fans and media used to be. Just to avoid seeming whiny, the direct answer is "no."

I mean, seriously had there been a team where more fluke things could go wrong? From Hrbek and air conditioners in 91 to the infield fly in 2012.

Lonnie Smith on the basepath had far greater consequences than Hrbek pulling a WWF stunt. Nevertheless, my own perspective was to just be thrilled that they made it that far back in '91. It's completely unrelated to the IF fly in '12.

I can except 91 and 92, it is what it is. We probably shouldn't have been there in 1991 and we played a great veteran team in the Jays in 1992.

If they had won, that might've stunted the hunger to return in '92. Reading the Smoltz book reminded me of the long-forgotten accusations of becoming "the Buffalo Bills of baseball." The Blue Jays weren't necessarily a better team, but it did prove that the closer role was an Achille's heel for the Braves.

The one that continues to bug me is 96. We had it, and had it taken away. So many bizarre things that lead to the end result. Everyone remembers the Leyritz homer off Wohlers, but does any one remember the bizarre incidents and plays that lead to the big comeback, specifically Dye? What about Andruw getting rung up by Welke in game 3 in a critical situation, and what about the horrible call at second with Grissom in game 6 in the 8th inning with Chipper and Mcgriff on deck to mount a possible comeback?

You are leaving out an important segment of Braves lore with the stadium fire on the evening of McGriff's first game as a Brave. The previous year, Sid's slide was the most exciting play in Braves history. So, the Braves were fortunate to even make the '92 WS, and they were exhausted from the pennant race for the ages with the Giants in '93. Didn't the Giants win 103 games? They didn't make the post season. Mind-boggling. With the wild cards now, we will never experience anything like it again.

But how different would history be if we closed out 1996. We'd certainly be remembered differently and are for sure the team of the 1990s.

This is certainly true, but that takes nothing away from the success.

And maybe that deters Schueholz from making questionable changes afterward by trading Justice/Grissom for Lofton or trading for Tucker/Lockhart. I still scratch my self over those moves.

Two totally different scenarios. The Justice/Grissom was dictated by financial concerns, specifically to have payroll space available to extend Maddux and Glavine. The Tucker deal bothered me too, but they just wanted a RH bat. Dye turned out better than could've been anticipated though.

And most of all, throughout the years, if the FO would have spent more time and resources on the pen, things might have been a lot different.

Well, they finally did, during the early 2000's. It didn't lead to greater glory. In the last 10-15 years, handling of bullpens had evolved greatly. Despite what other posters here might claim, it is very possible to budget for an affordable but effective relief corps. (See the annual team selected by Sports Weekly.)

And maybe talking this over will release these Demons off our backs and get us a championship, or at least some postseason success in the near future!

Some of this is just borne of frustration. So, my immediate answer is "no, they're not cursed." However, some of the younger fans had been spoiled by the 90's. After having gone through the 2nd half of the 80's, not losing 100 games a year seemed like a major accomplishment. That's the real test as a fan, when the team really sucks. That all occurred during my college years. The luxury was having the Braves on TBS. Now, it's a decision of whether or not to subscribe to Extra Innings to just be able to watch, or catch them on ESPN, MLB Network or SNY on occasion.

Think of it as a pastime. Baseball is part of everything else that makes summer fun and enjoyable. Yeah, it'd be nice if they won it all again in this lifetime. With the additional layers of playoffs, it'd become a crap shoot, as we all know. OP said that we're blessed. Agreed, because from this corner, there would've been no way fathomable that somebody could've told me in 1988 that the Braves would be in a WS 3 years later and win it 7 years later.

[The Chosen One]

Don't mind some cherry-picking.



Under what user name did you post under? This handle doesn't ring any bells. Kind of a surprise that Bill went to that extreme. The current regime is another story...

[AUTiger7222]

Knuckie the younger guys like me don't remember the Braves winning it all in 1995. But by 1996 were old enough to remember the heartbreak of 1996.

One of my closest friends is from Indiana but his dad's side of the family is from Chicago, so he's a huge Cubs fan, so when I start complaining about the Braves he's real quick to remind me how well I've had it with being a Braves fan. But I do tell him I have seen a couple of bad Braves teams in my lifetime, 2006 and 2008. But nothing like losing 100 games a year in the late 80s although they did hit 90 losses in 2008.

[COGPK]

I guess the context of how long you have been a Braves fan comes into play. I said I feel blessed being a Braves fan. I go back to the beginning in 1966. In fact, most of you probably are not aware but the Braves were coming here in 1965 but was stopped by the courts. So, in 1965, we were watching the Milwaukee Braves knowing it was our team and were coming here in '66. So, I have really been a Braves fan since 1965. Geez, that will be 50 years next year. So, I feel blessed because of all the entertainment tey have provided me for almost 50 years.

[Knucksie]

Knuckie the younger guys like me don't remember the Braves winning it all in 1995. But by 1996 were old enough to remember the heartbreak of 1996.

One of my closest friends is from Indiana but his dad's side of the family is from Chicago, so he's a huge Cubs fan, so when I start complaining about the Braves he's real quick to remind me how well I've had it with being a Braves fan. But I do tell him I have seen a couple of bad Braves teams in my lifetime, 2006 and 2008. But nothing like losing 100 games a year in the late 80s although they did hit 90 losses in 2008.

Those teams from '06 and '08 were just mediocre. The Braves teams in the late 80's were laughingstocks. It was entirely different, because the org has not been in full scale rebuild mode since 1990. It's not just that they were guaranteed to lose 100 games/year during that 2nd half o the 80's. Check this out: as was common during that period of time, September callups would get worked into the starting lineups. One time, the lineup that the Braves fielded was so below major league standard, that the opposing manager (can't remember if it was Giants, Astros or somebody else - because it doesn't seem like something Tommy Lasorda would've done) filed an official complaint with the league office.

[AUTiger7222]

Those teams from '06 and '08 were just mediocre. The Braves teams in the late 80's were laughingstocks. It was entirely different, because the org has not been in full scale rebuild mode since 1990. It's not just that they were guaranteed to lose 100 games/year during that 2nd half o the 80's. Check this out: as was common during that period of time, September callups would get worked into the starting lineups. One time, the lineup that the Braves fielded was so below major league standard, that the opposing manager (can't remember if it was Giants, Astros or somebody else - because it doesn't seem like something Tommy Lasorda would've done) filed an official complaint with the league office.

That 2008 team was pretty bad. I agreed that it wasn't as bad as the those 80s teams but man. Jair Jurrjens was a rookie and he started the season as our #5 starter and ended up leading the staff in innings pitched that year. Mark Teixeira was traded at the trading deadline for all defense and very little offense Casey Kotchman. That team the BRaves were putting on the field in August and September was pathetic. Jeff Francoeur was completely pathetic that year.

Our rotation at one point was Jair Jurrjens, Jorge Campillo, Mike Hampton, Jo-Jo Reyes and Charlie Morton. Seriously. That's pathetic. Our bullpen was just as bad. We used 49 different players that year including 28 different pitchers.

So sure it's no where near where those teams of the 80s were but it was pretty bad that year for the Braves.