School Choice - It's Time

[acesfull86]

[IMG]https://www.redefinedonline.org/wp-c..._June-2021.png[/IMG]

Lot of Koch bootlickers among the African-American community...

[57Brave]

and that has to do with ... ?

Far left agenda, tell me what it is
So far you cant

[acesfull86]

[QUOTE=57Brave;786177]and that has to do with ... ?
/QUOTE]

The topic of the thread

[57Brave]

The " far left agenda" has nothing to do with the topic you admit.

You then injected race ... draw your own conclusions

[nsacpi]

Yup. It's succeeded in creating a lot of administrative busybody jobs, that's about it.

That's where a lot of the low hanging fruit lies.

But also some knotty questions. I know in California that a big chunk of the increase in spending and administrative overhead is in the area of special needs education. And there is value in that spending.

Private schools don't have to operate under the same requirements regarding special needs education. Vouchers if not carefully designed can end up being a vehicle for some to opt out of the social choices we make about providing for the education of special needs students.

It is interesting to see New Hampshire going strongly in the direction of vouchers and school choice. In their case there is no perverse incentive since the state generally is very stingy when it comes to spending on special needs education.

[57Brave]

The issue of school choice has roots in nothing more than defunding public education for the purpose of breaking the teachers union - thought to be a (D) voting block.
And/or the mid 70's busing issue.
We all know those roots.
No pun intended

[acesfull86]

The " far left agenda" has nothing to do with the topic you admit.

You then injected race ... draw your own conclusions

I don't think parents, because of their zip code and/or lack of means, should be forced to have their kids to learn about CRT or the 1619 project or get history taught to them through a particular "lens" that is pushed off as fact, if they don't want to.

That's the beauty of the school choice/voucher idea. There's competition and choice. I'm not here celebrating Ron DeSantis passing bills telling schools what they can and can't teach. I want a system where parents have the choice to send their kids to the school they see best fit to serve their needs.

You want to take one line of one post in this thread and use it to deflect because you can't/won't defend the current system.

[acesfull86]

The issue of school choice has roots in nothing more than defunding public education for the purpose of breaking the teachers union - thought to be a (D) voting block.
And/or the mid 70's busing issue.
We all know those roots.
No pun intended

If those public schools are so great, they'll thrive under this system.

The goal is to have a society that best educates its children, not serve the needs of a union.

[57Brave]

No they won't because the funding will dry up.
The best teachers will go to where they can mKe the most and those left in the public system will be left behind.

You have a Fox News understanding of the function of a union. Especially the teachers union

How long before we are teaching creationism in the public schools because the funding depends on it?

How long before the flat earthers have the power of the education purse and Gallileo is thrown to the curb.

Choice huh ? All for a woman's choice when it relates to a school but ...
Your world view is Swiss Cheese

Tell me again the far left agenda you used when formulating this opnion

What an apt title, An Inconvenient Truth

/////


"
The goal is to have a society that best educates its children, not serve the needs of a union."

and we cant do both ?

[57Brave]

I do think the current methods of teaching and evaluation are dated. As in 1930's. But to treat the public education system as we did the post office in October 2020 is akin to throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Here we find education in the same dated boat with policing.
////

understand, school choice became a topic in the early years of integration.
and has since gained steam --- for the same reasons.

You can look that up

[Oklahomahawk]

OK, I realize that since I've spend almost 30 years in education I don't get an opinion on this, but just lay all the facts out there, let's start with this, how do you plan on doing the funding? Are we talking about the vouchers working on a daily or weekly basis or a monthly basis or are students locked into that school choice for a full 9 weeks or a full semester??

Help me out on how you guys would handle this part and we'll go from there. Fair enough?

[Oklahomahawk]

If those public schools are so great, they'll thrive under this system.

The goal is to have a society that best educates its children, not serve the needs of a union.

No offense but I suspect this is at the heart of much (certainly not all) of the right's hatred on public schools. I may be wrong but I've seen this brewing for many years. Yes I have blasted the teachers union for legitimate reasons for many years, including when I was a member of it (when I was sort of nudged aside when union reps were in the area) but again I suspect this is way more political than it is anything else and if you'll recall I have stated on multiple occasions that our educational system needs a major overhaul so I'm definitely NOT kissing up to the unions.

[acesfull86]

OK, I realize that since I've spend almost 30 years in education I don't get an opinion on this, but just lay all the facts out there, let's start with this, how do you plan on doing the funding? Are we talking about the vouchers working on a daily or weekly basis or a monthly basis or are students locked into that school choice for a full 9 weeks or a full semester??

Help me out on how you guys would handle this part and we'll go from there. Fair enough?

We can experiment.

We don't already do this at the college level? I wasn't forced to go to the college closest to my zip code...and if I felt the college I chose was not best suiting my needs, I was free to take my business elsewhere.

[acesfull86]

understand, school choice became a topic in the early years of integration.
and has since gained steam --- for the same reasons.

You can look that up

How do you reconcile your views against the overwhelming popularity these policies have among minority communities?

Another white liberal riding in on his horse to save the poor blacks from their own ignorance.

[acesfull86]

"The goal is to have a society that best educates its children, not serve the needs of a union."

and we cant do both ?

150% increase in inflation adjusted tuition per pupil over 50 years against stagnant reading, writing, and math proficiency suggests maybe not.

[57Brave]

i dont.

[57Brave]

150% increase in inflation adjusted tuition per pupil over 50 years against stagnant reading, writing, and math proficiency suggests maybe not.

only 150% shoot, plywood jumped 300%
I said earlier I am, like policing, all for taking a hard look at updating methods of instruction and evaluation in public education
but not in favor of (defunding police) or scrapping the public education system

[acesfull86]

That's where a lot of the low hanging fruit lies.

But also some knotty questions. I know in California that a big chunk of the increase in spending and administrative overhead is in the area of special needs education. And there is value in that spending.

Private schools don't have to operate under the same requirements regarding special needs education. Vouchers if not carefully designed can end up being a vehicle for some to opt out of the social choices we make about providing for the education of special needs students.

It is interesting to see New Hampshire going strongly in the direction of vouchers and school choice. In their case there is no perverse incentive since the state generally is very stingy when it comes to spending on special needs education.

I'm 1,000% in agreement...a system where we have vouchers, but have some mechanism to provide for special needs children >>>>>>>>>>> our current system

[acesfull86]

How long before the flat earthers have the power of the education purse and Gallileo is thrown to the curb.

Choice huh ? All for a woman's choice when it relates to a school but ...
Your world view is Swiss Cheese

Galileo is more likely to be thrown to the curb by some Twitter SJW discovering he used the wrong pronoun in 1593 than he is by a charter school choosing to not teach science. I don't even know where you're trying to go with this one.

My worldview is all for a woman's choice when it comes to pregnancy, and how she educates the children she chooses to have. Who is the one with the swiss cheese worldview again?

[acesfull86]

No offense but I suspect this is at the heart of much (certainly not all) of the right's hatred on public schools. I may be wrong but I've seen this brewing for many years. Yes I have blasted the teachers union for legitimate reasons for many years, including when I was a member of it (when I was sort of nudged aside when union reps were in the area) but again I suspect this is way more political than it is anything else and if you'll recall I have stated on multiple occasions that our educational system needs a major overhaul so I'm definitely NOT kissing up to the unions.

The past 16 months certainly didn’t help