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Thread: School Choice - It's Time

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    Waiting for Free Agency acesfull86's Avatar
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    https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001...99571015982098

    Suppose that groceries were supplied in the same way as K-12 education. Residents of each county would pay taxes on their properties. Nearly half of those tax revenues would then be spent by government officials to build and operate supermarkets. Each family would be assigned to a particular supermarket according to its home address. And each family would get its weekly allotment of groceries — “for free” — from its neighborhood public supermarket.

    No family would be permitted to get groceries from a public supermarket outside of its district. Fortunately, though, thanks to a Supreme Court decision, families would be free to shop at private supermarkets that charge directly for the groceries they offer. Private-supermarket families, however, would receive no reductions in their property taxes.

    Of course, the quality of public supermarkets would play a major role in families’ choices about where to live. Real-estate agents and chambers of commerce in prosperous neighborhoods would brag about the high quality of public supermarkets to which families in their cities and towns are assigned.

    Being largely protected from consumer choice, almost all public supermarkets would be worse than private ones. In poor counties the quality of public supermarkets would be downright abysmal. Poor people — entitled in principle to excellent supermarkets — would in fact suffer unusually poor supermarket quality.

    How could it be otherwise? Public supermarkets would have captive customers and revenues supplied not by customers but by the government. Of course they wouldn’t organize themselves efficiently to meet customers’ demands.

    Responding to these failures, thoughtful souls would call for “supermarket choice” fueled by vouchers or tax credits. Those calls would be vigorously opposed by public-supermarket administrators and workers.

    Opponents of supermarket choice would accuse its proponents of demonizing supermarket workers (who, after all, have no control over their customers’ poor eating habits at home). Advocates of choice would also be accused of trying to deny ordinary families the food needed for survival. Such choice, it would be alleged, would drain precious resources from public supermarkets whose poor performance testifies to their overwhelming need for more public funds.

    As for the handful of radicals who call for total separation of supermarket and state — well, they would be criticized by almost everyone as antisocial devils indifferent to the starvation that would haunt the land if the provision of groceries were governed exclusively by private market forces.

    In the face of calls for supermarket choice, supermarket-workers unions would use their significant resources for lobbying — in favor of public-supermarkets’ monopoly power and against any suggestion that market forces are appropriate for delivering something as essential as groceries. Some indignant public-supermarket defenders would even rail against the insensitivity of referring to grocery shoppers as “customers,” on the grounds that the relationship between the public servants who supply life-giving groceries and the citizens who need those groceries is not so crass as to be discussed in terms of commerce.

    Recognizing that the erosion of their monopoly would stop the gravy train that pays their members handsome salaries without requiring them to satisfy paying customers, unions would ensure that any grass-roots effort to introduce supermarket choice meets fierce political opposition.

    In reality, of course, groceries and many other staples of daily life are distributed with extraordinary effectiveness by competitive markets responding to consumer choice. The same could be true of education — the unions’ self-serving protestations notwithstanding.

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    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
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    I think public education has its origins in the fact that unlike groceries not every family would choose to provide it for their children. It clearly has a public good aspect that groceries don't. Still the case for competition and choices is strong. You can provide a public option (or better yet a variety of public options) while preserving and encouraging competition.
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    I'll continue to point out that teacher unions and democrats are the obstacle to making this obvious better outcome a reality.

    Yet the people who claim to love children and hate racism vote for them anyway

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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    I'll continue to point out that teacher unions and democrats are the obstacle to making this obvious better outcome a reality.

    Yet the people who claim to love children and hate racism vote for them anyway
    This may be true in some places. But in New York City the candidates for mayor that get the endorsement of the teachers unions have not won in a long time. The top two candidates in the recent Democratic primary (Adams and Garcia) are both strong supporters of charter schools. The teachers unions have been trying to kill charter schools in New York City, but without much success. Most voters understand that the best interests of students and teachers don't always align. Doesn't mean most teachers aren't dedicated professionals who work hard at their jobs. I might add both Adams and Garcia favor retaining the special exams that are part of the admission process for the top high schools like Brooklyn Tech.
    Last edited by nsacpi; 07-10-2021 at 12:06 PM.
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    https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikemcs...h=3fa9a5586a97

    It is difficult to understate just how huge a year school choice has had in state legislatures across the nation. When I last wrote about it, in late May, 13 states had created five new private school choice programs and expanded 13 existing ones. Those numbers are now up to 18 states creating seven new programs and expanding 21 existing ones. While we have seen years before with large numbers of new programs enacted, we have not seen the depth, breadth, size, and scope of new programs and program expansions that we have seen in 2021.



    In any given year, dozens of school choice bills are filed and debated in House and Senate committees in statehouses across the country. Most are the results of years of work on the part of advocates educating key stakeholders on the issues, working through common objections, estimating fiscal impacts, gathering relevant research, and more. Even with all that work, the vast majority of those bills fail. Institutional inertia, powerful opposition, infighting, and competing priorities find a way to squeeze them out.

    That is what makes this year so extraordinary. In states that have been coming up short for legislative session after legislative session, the logjam cleared. Provisions were included in budgets that governors who oppose school choice signed anyway. Choice was made a priority. Close votes where the outcome going into them was six-to-one and a half-dozen to the other broke in choice’s direction. It surpassed advocates’ most bullish projections.

    This will be the legacy of the coronavirus on the American education system. It was finally made clear to a critical mass of legislators that families need options, and the one-size-fits-all nature of the contemporary public education system is not fit for purpose in an uncertain and changing world. Funding a more diverse and decentralized system means creating a more resilient system and a system better tuned to the needs of the people it serves.


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    Quote Originally Posted by acesfull86 View Post
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikemcs...h=3fa9a5586a97

    It is difficult to understate just how huge a year school choice has had in state legislatures across the nation. When I last wrote about it, in late May, 13 states had created five new private school choice programs and expanded 13 existing ones. Those numbers are now up to 18 states creating seven new programs and expanding 21 existing ones. While we have seen years before with large numbers of new programs enacted, we have not seen the depth, breadth, size, and scope of new programs and program expansions that we have seen in 2021.



    In any given year, dozens of school choice bills are filed and debated in House and Senate committees in statehouses across the country. Most are the results of years of work on the part of advocates educating key stakeholders on the issues, working through common objections, estimating fiscal impacts, gathering relevant research, and more. Even with all that work, the vast majority of those bills fail. Institutional inertia, powerful opposition, infighting, and competing priorities find a way to squeeze them out.

    That is what makes this year so extraordinary. In states that have been coming up short for legislative session after legislative session, the logjam cleared. Provisions were included in budgets that governors who oppose school choice signed anyway. Choice was made a priority. Close votes where the outcome going into them was six-to-one and a half-dozen to the other broke in choice’s direction. It surpassed advocates’ most bullish projections.

    This will be the legacy of the coronavirus on the American education system. It was finally made clear to a critical mass of legislators that families need options, and the one-size-fits-all nature of the contemporary public education system is not fit for purpose in an uncertain and changing world. Funding a more diverse and decentralized system means creating a more resilient system and a system better tuned to the needs of the people it serves.

    There are other reasons why the movement to school choice has picked up so much momentum. A different brand of politician is being ushered into the political process on the Republican side. This has been brewing for some time but we needed someone to be the first messenger to break through. That has happened and now the game is forever changed.

    Education of children should be driven directly by their parents. If you find a bad situation then rectify those individually but overall the policy should be for the government to get out of parental decisions.
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    This didn't happen on its own. Rather, there is a constellation of non-profit groups and media outlets that are systematically injecting CRT into our politics. In 2020, most people had never heard of CRT. In 2021, a chorus of voices on the right insists it is an existential threat to the country.



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    Banning the teaching of CRT = crappy idea

    Expanding school choice = excellent idea

    Doesn’t have to be more complicated than that

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    Quote Originally Posted by acesfull86 View Post
    Banning the teaching of CRT = crappy idea
    I would say in that regard that

    1) Students should be taught about racism (including its present day manifestations) without characterizing whites or any particular group in a derogatory way. I don't think schools do that. It is a bit of a red herring. There may be a page or two in a curriculum that can be picked out and dissected for giving offense. But I don't think schools are teaching that whites are the devil.

    2) State governments are often eager to trumpet state rights against federal intrusion. They should show some respect for the prerogatives of local governments, including local school boards. There is not going to be uniformity in how school districts approach teaching about race and there is nothing inherently wrong with that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    I would say in that regard that

    1) Students should be taught about racism (including its present day manifestations) without characterizing whites or any particular group in a derogatory way. I don't think schools do that. It is a bit of a red herring. There may be a page or two in a curriculum that can be picked out and dissected for giving offense. But I don't think schools are teaching that whites are the devil.

    2) State governments are often eager to trumpet state rights against federal intrusion. They should show some respect for the prerogatives of local governments, including local school boards. There is not going to be uniformity in how school districts approach teaching about race and there is nothing inherently wrong with that.
    You are pathetically naive. One day you'll come around when Wapo finally decides its safe to report it


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    Several examples have been posted of teachers characterizing whites as being evil or needing to apologize for their ancestry. Is that adequately similar to "teaching that whites are the devil?"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaw View Post
    Several examples have been posted of teachers characterizing whites as being evil or needing to apologize for their ancestry. Is that adequately similar to "teaching that whites are the devil?"
    That would be wrong. And I'm sure there are a few instances of that happening. But I think it is rare. Certainly not the problem y'all are making it out to be. Within living memory, I have had 3 children go through the public schools. None of them experienced anything remotely close to whites being portrayed as evil.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    That would be wrong. And I'm sure there are a few instances of that happening. But I think it is rare. Certainly not the problem y'all are making it out to be. Within living memory, I have had 3 children go through the public schools. None of them experienced anything remotely close to whites being portrayed as evil.
    New world and I’m guessing they went to public schools in more affluent areas.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    New world and I’m guessing they went to public schools in more affluent areas.
    My youngest went to elementary school in Oakland. With classmates from a very wide race of ethnic, racial and socioeconomic backgrounds.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    My youngest went to elementary school in Oakland. With classmates from a very wide race of ethnic, racial and socioeconomic backgrounds.
    So before the Obama presidency which injected hyper partisian politics into the education system at warp speed about the same time the Bush power grab started with NCLBA.

    Got it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    So before the Obama presidency which injected hyper partisian politics into the education system at warp speed about the same time the Bush power grab started with NCLBA.

    Got it.
    During the Obama presidency. His kindergarden to 5th grade years were 2008-14.
    Last edited by nsacpi; 07-27-2021 at 07:30 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    During the Obama presidency. His kindergarden to 5th grade years were 2008-14.
    Ooof I’m old.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    Ooof I’m old.
    the best is yet to come
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    That would be wrong. And I'm sure there are a few instances of that happening. But I think it is rare. Certainly not the problem y'all are making it out to be. Within living memory, I have had 3 children go through the public schools. None of them experienced anything remotely close to whites being portrayed as evil.
    I hope it's rare. It's common enough for several instances to have been made public. It's acceptable enough that we've seen online teacher workshops advocating for it.

    I'm not sure the experience of your kids is representative of what happens now. We unfortunately had a national race riot go mostly unpunished last year, with some politicians and media being so ignorant as to advocate for and defend the actions that resulted in billions of dollars worth of property damage as "mostly peaceful." That showed everyone that the rules don't apply to their bad behavior if they claim it was in the name of racial "justice," and has had the predictable effect of emboldening simple minded progressive sheep everywhere.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaw View Post
    I hope it's rare. It's common enough for several instances to have been made public. It's acceptable enough that we've seen online teacher workshops advocating for it.

    I'm not sure the experience of your kids is representative of what happens now. We unfortunately had a national race riot go mostly unpunished last year, with some politicians and media being so ignorant as to advocate for and defend the actions that resulted in billions of dollars worth of property damage as "mostly peaceful." That showed everyone that the rules don't apply to their bad behavior if they claim it was in the name of racial "justice," and has had the predictable effect of emboldening simple minded progressive sheep everywhere.
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