How should we lineup going forward?

[Slippyjms]

I’m gonna go with

Swanson SS
Freeman 1B
Albies 2B
Riley LF
Arcia 3B
Heredia RF
Waters CF
Lucroy C


Fried
Morton
Smyly
Muller
Wilson
Touki


Swanson has had some success in the lead off spot and we need more from him if we’re gonna stay in the race.

Riley has been poor defensively at 3rd so I switched him in Arcia to hopefully squeeze some extra defensive value out of both.

We need a boost in the OF. An OF of Heredia Inciarte and Almonte isn’t gonna get it done. Let’s see if Waters can give us a boost and while we’re at it move Heredia out of CF.

Lucroy might at least give us something with the bat at C until TDA gets back.


We also should go with a 6 man rotation until Anderson or Ynoa gets back. We have no off days coming up and a couple double headers as well so a 6 man allows us to avoid bullpen games. If Anderson comes back on time that’s 2 starts apiece for Wilson and Touki. Of our available pitchers Wilson and Touki seem the most likely to make successful starts.


Curious to know everyone else’s opinion

[Deester11]

Rock meet hard place. I know everyone is ecstatic about Waters and I'm cautiously optimistic but if you didn't like Pache's lost look, I worry about Waters ONLY because as hot as he's been, he has stretches that are brutal as well. Not sure the Braves can stomach rebuilding the confidence of two decent prospects.

That said..gotta do something. If they think Waters can 'tread Water' (ouch), I'm OK with it. Really hate Swanson at leadoff. I like Albies there more. Just my opinion. But yeah..that outfield is..Meh. Bad Meh.

Albies
Freeman
Arcia
Riley
(Pray for rain)....

[Slippyjms]

Rock meet hard place. I know everyone is ecstatic about Waters and I'm cautiously optimistic but if you didn't like Pache's lost look, I worry about Waters ONLY because as hot as he's been, he has stretches that are brutal as well. Not sure the Braves can stomach rebuilding the confidence of two decent prospects.

That said..gotta do something. If they think Waters can 'tread Water' (ouch), I'm OK with it. Really hate Swanson at leadoff. I like Albies there more. Just my opinion. But yeah..that outfield is..Meh. Bad Meh.

Albies
Freeman
Arcia
Riley
(Pray for rain)....

I thought Albies for leadoff as well but I really like him behind Freeman. I like Righty Albies as a deterrent to bringing in a lefty for Freeman.

I share your concerns with Swanson. A lot of this is just putting people where they could potentially give us the most value and hoping for the best. Everyone is going to have to up their game anyway if we’re gonna stay in it.

You would hope Swanson would get better pitches to hit in front of Freeman rather than in front of Heredia as well.

[Deester11]

I thought Albies for leadoff as well but I really like him behind Freeman. I like Righty Albies as a deterrent to bringing in a lefty for Freeman.

I share your concerns with Swanson. A lot of this is just putting people where they could potentially give us the most value and hoping for the best. Everyone is going to have to up their game anyway if we’re gonna stay in it.

I try not to be an alarmist but AA and the band aid method won't put this team in position to do anything. As a matter of fact the only saving grace for this year is the terrible division to this point. I don't have confidence that Albies and Freeman will get the help offensively they need. I do like Arcia a lot....if it's real...it'll help. Interesting thread. Thanks.

[Julio3000]

Against the wall blindfolded.

[Carp]

Something tells me that Bae and his .318 career OBP is not such a good fit at leadoff. Granted, our options at this point aren't great all around, but I would probably still go Heredia or Ozzie.

[Russ2dollas]

I'm assuming Waters has to go on the 40 man in the offseason and they think he's earned it.

Swanson
FF
Albies
Riley
Use analytics for any advantages for the order of LF, CF, C
Pitcher
Waters (assuming RF, could be any OF spot)

Morton
Smyly
***I'd look to trade both of the one year vets
Fried
Muller
Newcombe or Wilson
Use Touki, Newcombe/Wilson and Wright as multi inning RPs. Drop tomlin and Chavez. Trade Jackson while he's good and has a year of control left.
***keep the innings down on Fried and Anderson when he comes back.

I'm playing for next year.
Give Swanson and Riley a ton of at bats so you can make the best decision you can.
See if Waters is part of your long term plan. Play Pache if you think that is best for him.
Move RPs that you don't have control over. See if Webb can be good if he knows he'll actually be on the team for a minute.

If there is a trade that makes us better this year and into 2023, then I'm down.
If there is a trade that makes us better this year, but doesn't cost any long term pieces, then I'm down. But it needs to be cheap.
I'm hoping that insurance is covering some significant money given our significant injuries this year. If so, I'd like to take that money and take on some salary in deals if we can get future assets.

Every win this year is a bonus. I just want to see the long term pieces play well and stay healthy. And I want FF to sign for 5/130 or less.

[Russ2dollas]

Something tells me that Bae and his .318 career OBP is not such a good fit at leadoff. Granted, our options at this point aren't great all around, but I would probably still go Heredia or Ozzie.

Agree 100%. But at this point I just get him a ton of at bats to help me decide about next year.

[msstate7]

Vs rhp, I'd lead off almonte
Vs lhp, I'd lead off albies and get carmargo at 3b with Riley in lf

[clvclv]

I'm assuming Waters has to go on the 40 man in the offseason and they think he's earned it.

Swanson
FF
Albies
Riley
Use analytics for any advantages for the order of LF, CF, C
Pitcher
Waters (assuming RF, could be any OF spot)

Morton
Smyly
***I'd look to trade both of the one year vets
Fried
Muller
Newcombe or Wilson
Use Touki, Newcombe/Wilson and Wright as multi inning RPs. Drop tomlin and Chavez. Trade Jackson while he's good and has a year of control left.
***keep the innings down on Fried and Anderson when he comes back.

I'm playing for next year.
Give Swanson and Riley a ton of at bats so you can make the best decision you can.
See if Waters is part of your long term plan. Play Pache if you think that is best for him.
Move RPs that you don't have control over. See if Webb can be good if he knows he'll actually be on the team for a minute.

If there is a trade that makes us better this year and into 2023, then I'm down.
If there is a trade that makes us better this year, but doesn't cost any long term pieces, then I'm down. But it needs to be cheap.
I'm hoping that insurance is covering some significant money given our significant injuries this year. If so, I'd like to take that money and take on some salary in deals if we can get future assets.

Every win this year is a bonus. I just want to see the long term pieces play well and stay healthy. And I want FF to sign for 5/130 or less.

Seriously?

You realize Chavez has arguably been the best Pitcher in the pen since he was added to the roster, and you're going to cut him to make room for three guys who AREN'T on the roster to be "multi-inning" RPs when Snitker won't use someone other than Tomlin for more than one inning without a gun to his head, and...

1.) Santana has options and can be sent down without losing him,
2.) Anderson's going on the IL which opens a spot, and...
3.) Camargo's likely going to be sent back down specifically to let them carry another arm.


Forgive me if I nominate someone else to be in charge of roster composition.

[McCann'sCans]

Does someone have a reasonably comprehensive list of available trade assets that are on multi-year deals? It feels like we should be targeting someone akin to what the Marlins did last year with Marte- if they can keep us in the race and help sell tickets in the short term that is great, but really it's about filling out the team next year.

For this year, I don't hate the idea of Almonte in the leadoff spot against righties especially. He has shown much better on-base skills than Swanson this year, granted his career OBP is even worse than Dansby's.

On the pitching side, Morton seems like an obvious trade and Smyly should have some value as well. I'd love to find someone to take Will Smith off our hands even if the return is almost nothing and all we're doing is freeing up that money. We can easily cobble together a rotation of Fried/Anderson and then some combination of guys like Ynoa, Wilson, Touki, Wright, etc. to get some extended looks and evaluation.

Realistically, the front office is going to have to do something. You can't run an outfield of Arcia-Heredia-Almonte out there every day and expect to continue selling tickets for the rest of the season. That would be the worst outfield in the MLB, and I don't think it is particularly close to the second-worst- maybe Oakland?

[msstate7]

Does someone have a reasonably comprehensive list of available trade assets that are on multi-year deals? It feels like we should be targeting someone akin to what the Marlins did last year with Marte- if they can keep us in the race and help sell tickets in the short term that is great, but really it's about filling out the team next year.

For this year, I don't hate the idea of Almonte in the leadoff spot against righties especially. He has shown much better on-base skills than Swanson this year, granted his career OBP is even worse than Dansby's.

On the pitching side, Morton seems like an obvious trade and Smyly should have some value as well. I'd love to find someone to take Will Smith off our hands even if the return is almost nothing and all we're doing is freeing up that money. We can easily cobble together a rotation of Fried/Anderson and then some combination of guys like Ynoa, Wilson, Touki, Wright, etc. to get some extended looks and evaluation.

Realistically, the front office is going to have to do something. You can't run an outfield of Arcia-Heredia-Almonte out there every day and expect to continue selling tickets for the rest of the season. That would be the worst outfield in the MLB, and I don't think it is particularly close to the second-worst- maybe Oakland?

^^^ someone thinking about the business side. Good job.

Trading assets is great if attendance would stay the same, but it won't. Would you go see?

Almonte
Heredia
Albies
Riley
Arcia
Ender
Camargo
Smith/lucroy

No, and no one else would either. Battery sales and ticket revenue then crash

[Horsehide Harry]

^^^ someone thinking about the business side. Good job.

Trading assets is great if attendance would stay the same, but it won't. Would you go see?

Almonte
Heredia
Albies
Riley
Arcia
Ender
Camargo
Smith/lucroy

No, and no one else would either. Battery sales and ticket revenue then crash

The business side is driven by the competitiveness of the team, and for Atlanta, that means at least the illusion that they might make the playoffs and win a WS. That illusion is gone now, no matter what color glasses you use to view the world. To me, you have to think about it like this: Attendance is going to decline from now until the end of the year no matter what since Acuna is gone and Anderson is likely gone with no real viable replacements and no likely way to trade for enough to fix all the holes even without consideration of emptying the farm of all young, affordable talent, such as it is. So, if you project attendance to decline by 20% if you do nothing where should you be concerned for attendance loss beyond that 40%? 30%?

So, let's say the Braves were on track to draw 3M fans roughly. About half the season (a little more but this is rough) has already passed, so you are talking about a potential 1.5M fans. Now, Atlanta is a transient town anyway where a lot of baseball fans residing in Atlanta ARE NOT Braves fans (ever go to a Braves/Cubs game or a Braves/Dodgers or Braves/Cards or Braves/Yanks or Braves/RSox) so let's estimate that 30% of those 1.5M aren't coming to see Atlanta win, that's 450K fans. That leaves 1.05M Atlanta fans in the balance. Let's say that half of those are casual, walk up, got-nothing-better-to do fans, so lets go see a ballgame. So now you're at about 500K fans at risk. Now, let's say you lose 50% of those or 250K fans that you would have gotten. If each one averages spending $100 per game at the game and the battery (that's a very high estimate I expect) then the Braves stand to lose $25M in revenue. Trading Freeman alone saves you $10M.

[Deester11]

^^^ someone thinking about the business side. Good job.

Trading assets is great if attendance would stay the same, but it won't. Would you go see?

Almonte
Heredia
Albies
Riley
Arcia
Ender
Camargo
Smith/lucroy

No, and no one else would either. Battery sales and ticket revenue then crash

Oh..I don't know...the opportunity to see Ender and Camargo just reeks of excitement. Puke.

[msstate7]

I think it's all a moot point anyway. I say the odds FF and Swanson are traded are less than the current braves' playoff chances.

[PawPawMaxwell]

Thats why I see you as FANatical. LOL

[msstate7]

Thats why I see you as FANatical. LOL

I don't think im being unrealistic. Fangraphs has the braves' playoff odds at 7.1%. I put braves' odds of trading FF and Swanson at less than 5%

[McCann'sCans]

The business side is driven by the competitiveness of the team, and for Atlanta, that means at least the illusion that they might make the playoffs and win a WS. That illusion is gone now, no matter what color glasses you use to view the world.

While you are correct about the reality that this team has virtually no chance to win a WS, I think you're overestimating how apparent that is to most people. If the Braves went out and traded for Kendall Graveman and Adam Duvall, I think most of us would agree that while we might hang around in the division slightly longer, the odds of winning the WS would still be something like 1%. Duvall is flawed and a far cry from Ronald Acuna, and Graveman has clearly been incredibly lucky.

But to the average fan, they see a team that is hanging around in the division and just added the guy leading the NL in RBI and a guy with a sub 1.00 ERA to be the closer. The revenue difference in that scenario is wildly different from a scenario where they sell Morton, Smyly, and d'Arnaud for prospects without adding anyone.

[clvclv]

Does someone have a reasonably comprehensive list of available trade assets that are on multi-year deals? It feels like we should be targeting someone akin to what the Marlins did last year with Marte- if they can keep us in the race and help sell tickets in the short term that is great, but really it's about filling out the team next year.

For this year, I don't hate the idea of Almonte in the leadoff spot against righties especially. He has shown much better on-base skills than Swanson this year, granted his career OBP is even worse than Dansby's.

On the pitching side, Morton seems like an obvious trade and Smyly should have some value as well. I'd love to find someone to take Will Smith off our hands even if the return is almost nothing and all we're doing is freeing up that money. We can easily cobble together a rotation of Fried/Anderson and then some combination of guys like Ynoa, Wilson, Touki, Wright, etc. to get some extended looks and evaluation.

Realistically, the front office is going to have to do something. You can't run an outfield of Arcia-Heredia-Almonte out there every day and expect to continue selling tickets for the rest of the season. That would be the worst outfield in the MLB, and I don't think it is particularly close to the second-worst- maybe Oakland?

You realize Anderson's going on the IL for the next two weeks and possibly the rest of the year, right?

It's his shoulder that's barking - not his elbow - and he has one of the most over-the-top motions in MLB which means they're going to have to be more cautious with this than most injuries.

[Russ2dollas]

Seriously?

You realize Chavez has arguably been the best Pitcher in the pen since he was added to the roster, and you're going to cut him to make room for three guys who AREN'T on the roster to be "multi-inning" RPs when Snitker won't use someone other than Tomlin for more than one inning without a gun to his head, and...

1.) Santana has options and can be sent down without losing him,
2.) Anderson's going on the IL which opens a spot, and...
3.) Camargo's likely going to be sent back down specifically to let them carry another arm.


Forgive me if I nominate someone else to be in charge of roster composition.

Yes. You can disagree but use some reading comprehension.

Chavez is a 37 y/o who will be a free agent next year. I said I am playing for the future. Trade him or whatever. Play the young guys. If we lose, ok but get ready to win next year.