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Thread: Official CBA Negotiation Thread

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    Official CBA Negotiation Thread

    Figured we are close enough now to go ahead and start a thread with the CBA negotiations starting to go back and forth.

    The owners made a proposal to put a salary floor at $100m with a $180m max. Teams going over the $180m would be taxed 25% and it goes up from there based on how far over the team goes.

    Word also came out today that the owners are also proposing a change in service time/arbitration. Basically players are made eligible for free agency once they reach 29.5 years of age. There is also a $1 billion pool that would be dispersed in an unspecified manner to replace the current arbitration system.
    Get off my lawn!

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    Can't figure the 29.5 number would work for most guys?
    Ivermectin Man

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapate50 View Post
    Can't figure the 29.5 number would work for most guys?
    If this rule existed 20 years ago then Furcal, Betemit, and Fausto Carmona would have given their real ages.
    Forever Fredi


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    Quote Originally Posted by The Chosen One View Post
    If this rule existed 20 years ago then Furcal, Betemit, and Fausto Carmona would have given their real ages.
    Wouldn’t soto be a free agent next year too then.
    Coppy

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    Quote Originally Posted by bravesfanMatt View Post
    Wouldn’t soto be a free agent next year too then.
    6 years ago in fact.
    Ivermectin Man

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    Jon Heyman
    @JonHeyman
    MLB proposed free agency for players at 29.5 years and also a $100M payroll floor for teams, but sources say the union responded very negatively to the overall initial package proposed. (There’s obviously a lot more to it than those two nice ideas.)
    Get off my lawn!

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    I wish they would negotiate for league/team executives have to undergo the same drug testing as players with similar penalties. You know, because we care about their health.
    "Donald Trump will serve a second term as president of the United States.

    It’s over."


    Little Thethe Nov 19, 2020.

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    I expect everything this early to be rejected.

    Will the players put anything out?

    If I were in charge my principles would be:
    1. More money to younger players. They are the most underpaid. Being underpaid makes them more likely to sign under value extensions. Younger players being so cheap means they take jobs from middle tier vets.
    2. Older players incentivized. I said in 1 that younger players take the jobs of older guys b/c they are cheaper. I think this is bad because younger guys have less time to develop and good players (but not impact players) are out of MLB too quickly or forced to minimum salaries. I think having older clubhouses will be good for the development of young players too. I don't want it to be 3-5 guys getting really good money and a bunch of guys on rookie and/or vet minimums.
    3. Minor leaguers need a wage they can live on.
    4. Game tweaks to make the game faster and more interesting. Robo umps. Replay changed to 2 challenges a game with the team having 10 seconds to challenge and 120 seconds per review (fix gross misconduct only). Anything to encourage steals (like not calling someone out if they come off the bag for second on a steal). Pitch clocks. DH. Keep the 3 batter reliever rule. No expanded playoffs but do a tournament at the end of the year for the wildcard. No 7 inning DHs.
    5. End black outs
    6. Market stars. Including minor league stars.
    7. Only partner with broadcast partners who will have announcers that love and sell the current game. MLB TV has to revamp most all of the programing.
    8. Embrace gambling
    9. Find a way to increase transactions so they are not all on the trade deadline
    10. Teams do not get revenue sharing unless they pass that money onto the players.

    I know a lot of those aren't typical CBA topics. But if I'm the players I want things in the CBA that make those happen. Sell the game and grow the pie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bravesfanforlife88 View Post
    Figured we are close enough now to go ahead and start a thread with the CBA negotiations starting to go back and forth.

    The owners made a proposal to put a salary floor at $100m with a $180m max. Teams going over the $180m would be taxed 25% and it goes up from there based on how far over the team goes.

    Word also came out today that the owners are also proposing a change in service time/arbitration. Basically players are made eligible for free agency once they reach 29.5 years of age. There is also a $1 billion pool that would be dispersed in an unspecified manner to replace the current arbitration system.
    The 30 y/o rule I don't think would impact Fried. It would make Maztek a FA and that could be a big deal for the braves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Russ2dollas View Post
    The 30 y/o rule I don't think would impact Fried. It would make Maztek a FA and that could be a big deal for the braves.
    Maztek as a free agent would be a bad outcome for the braves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Russ2dollas View Post
    Maztek as a free agent would be a bad outcome for the braves.
    Points out something that isn't discussed a lot - that the MLBPA is guided much more by the one percenters (stars) than it's actually concerned about advancing things for the Average Joes, regardless of who the team representatives are from year to year.

    I'm willing to bet Matzek is on the opposite end of the spectrum of this particular issue now than he was when he was a hotshot prospect on the rise several years ago. At the end of the day, there are probably far more late-bloomers who would benefit from being automatically declared free-agents at a younger age than there are guys whose earning power is significantly curbed the way the system currently stands. If I were a player, I'd be much more interested in having that automatic free-agency number moved up to 28 than I would care about altering service-time or Super Two status.

    Think about it - now that management realizes how bad an investment paying players into their mid-to-late thirties is, becoming a free-agent at 28 at least gives the better than league-average players a much better shot at landing a 3-4 year guaranteed deal. This doesn't seem like that big a deal from a fans' perspective, but it makes a huge impact for a LOT of players that aren't "stars". The game has been getting "younger", but the typical player still doesn't get called up until he's 24-26 years old. If you come up at 24 - and STAY UP - you'd be a free-agent at 30-31 under the current deal. There were exactly seven players over the age of 30 that got deals longer than two seasons last winter. If you take out the Bauer, Lemahieu, and Ozuna deals none of those guys got more than $40.6 million.

    Where getting that automatic free-agent number down would make a HUGE difference for players is in their pensions. (The only reason I feel like I know anything about this is because I know a little about the situation Greg Holland is in.) Players have to have ten FULL seasons of service-time to become fully-vested in the MLBPA pension program. That's one of the reasons the former player analysts made such a big deal about Tomlin crossing the 10 year mark last season. If a player becomes fully-vested, he's eligible to start drawing a minimum of $68K per year at age 45, and if he waits until he's 62 to start drawing he'll make $220,000 per year at that point. I realize that seems like peanuts when looking at the millions players make during their primes, but it's becoming next-to-impossible for them to get there now that teams aren't paying "average" players into their mid-30s. A couple of notable recent players who didn't get there are Tim Lincecum and Josh Hamilton. That shouldn't be a problem for those guys considering the money they made during their primes - assuming they invested well - but how many players ever get to make that kind of money? Once vested, a player also receives full LIFETIME medical benefits. Greg had 8.163 years of service-time at the beginning of 2021, and after the season he had there's little chance he gets signed by anyone this winter. There are a *elluva lot more guys like Greg Holland than there are like Josh Hamilton and Tim Lincecum.

    Don't misunderstand - Greg's not going to wind up in the poor house because he's been incredibly careful with the money he's made, but that extra $68,000 a year plus benefits sure would come in awfully handy when it comes time to pay for the kids to go to college.

    If a player gets called up at 22 and plays under his rookie contract until he becomes a free-agent at 28, then signs a 4 year deal at that point - even at middling money by today's standards - he'd be fully-vested by the end of that deal at 32 years old. If he doesn't come up until he's 24 or 25, the chance he ever gets there is becoming smaller and smaller almost every day. The chances a player gets a 4 year deal after the age of 30 are almost nonexistent for all but the biggest stars.
    Last edited by clvclv; 10-21-2021 at 02:02 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Chosen One View Post
    If this rule existed 20 years ago then Furcal, Betemit, and Fausto Carmona would have given their real ages.
    Betemit was actually signed too young and was pretending to be older, believe it or not.

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    I can't concentrate on the postseason with this thread being present.

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    LINK

    Per ESPN, MLB will almost certainly have a work stoppage effective December 2nd which will cause the free agent market to be frozen. So enjoy this while it lasts....going to be a long offseason.
    Get off my lawn!

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    I don't know what would have to transpire for this to happen but my hope is this work stoppage results in the owners getting rid of Manfred. Manfred makes Selig look like a legend by comparison.

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    Quote Originally Posted by striker42 View Post
    I don't know what would have to transpire for this to happen but my hope is this work stoppage results in the owners getting rid of Manfred. Manfred makes Selig look like a legend by comparison.

    HE. IS. THE. WORST. Really.... in all of sports right now he's the worst commissioner of all time.

    Guys trash and needs to GTFO.
    Ivermectin Man

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    Quote Originally Posted by striker42 View Post
    I don't know what would have to transpire for this to happen but my hope is this work stoppage results in the owners getting rid of Manfred. Manfred makes Selig look like a legend by comparison.
    Selig at least liked baseball

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapate50 View Post
    HE. IS. THE. WORST. Really.... in all of sports right now he's the worst commissioner of all time.

    Guys trash and needs to GTFO.
    He has this innate ability to always seem like he’s on the wrong side of an issue.

    Take, for example, the discussion about the “Braves” and “Chop” discourse going on right now. His weird defense of the name “we don’t market our game at a national level blah blah blah” was embarrassing. I don’t even agree with the fake outrage about the name, but I almost want to change the name just to be on the opposite side as that guy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chop2chip View Post
    He has this innate ability to always seem like he’s on the wrong side of an issue.

    Take, for example, the discussion about the “Braves” and “Chop” discourse going on right now. His weird defense of the name “we don’t market our game at a national level blah blah blah” was embarrassing. I don’t even agree with the fake outrage about the name, but I almost want to change the name just to be on the opposite side as that guy.
    It was an odd take. I really thought he'd double down on pushing us to change it.

    He must have really been trying to dodge the question and rambled that off on the fly.
    Ivermectin Man

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