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Thread: Minimum Wage

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    Minimum Wage

    From a Daily Show segment (but transcription c/o The Poopington Huff):

    Schiff: "If we eliminated the minimum wage law then individuals would be free to accept jobs at whatever pay they're able to get."

    Bee: "Paint me a picture of a person whose work would be worth $2 an hour."

    Schiff: "You know somebody who might be? Maybe somebody who is, uh, you know, what's the politically correct word? Uh, you know, uh, for, uh, you know, mentally retarded?"

    Bee: [...]

    Schiff: "I'm not going to say that we're all created equal... you're worth what you're worth."
    I'm assuming this is poetry to the eyes of the "free to work for what you will" crowd, but to me this illustrates exactly why we should be very, very wary of letting the capitalist overlords start paying whatever wage they'd like and then letting us "decide" that we'll work for it.
    Last edited by jpx7; 01-29-2014 at 06:45 PM.
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    I don't mind the minimum wage, but I do mind that us middle-class worth will go down because of it because we have to charge people more because we have to pay more in salaries.

    Wife probably has to raise her rates in conjunction with the pay hike so she can make the same profits as last year. Right now she hasn't, but she is looking at returns last year and projecting what happens this year.

    We are far from rich and living paycheck to paycheck like everyone else. Work was nice to give us a raise to buffer Obamination care. They raised our insurance from 180 to 200 a month for a family and no change in deductibles. The boss said our salaries will still be the same to reflect the change, but the owner is not happy about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpx7 View Post
    From a Daily Show segment (but transcription c/o The Poopington Huff):



    I'm assuming this is poetry to the eyes of the "free to work for what you will" crowd, but to me this illustrates exactly why we should be very, very wary of letting the capitalist overlords start paying whatever wage they'd like and then letting us "decide" that we'll work for it.
    So just to be clear, do you believe that someone who is really incapable of working at nearly the same level as another person, should be paid the same amount?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AerchAngel View Post
    I don't mind the minimum wage, but I do mind that us middle-class worth will go down because of it because we have to charge people more because we have to pay more in salaries.

    Wife probably has to raise her rates in conjunction with the pay hike so she can make the same profits as last year. Right now she hasn't, but she is looking at returns last year and projecting what happens this year.

    We are far from rich and living paycheck to paycheck like everyone else. Work was nice to give us a raise to buffer Obamination care. They raised our insurance from 180 to 200 a month for a family and no change in deductibles. The boss said our salaries will still be the same to reflect the change, but the owner is not happy about it.
    I had this discussion the other day with some uber-lib friends. I told them I wasn't necessarily against raising the minimum wage, but I thought their enthusiasm about it really fixing a lot of things was horribly misplaced. I think taxing the living sh!t out of people and corporations who send jobs overseas is WAY overdue and that and only that sort of thing will ever really fix our current job problems.

    A couple of things just to make the far right crowd angry with me, not that they ever get otherwise really.

    First AA, I feel for you and your wife's situation. You guys are the ones the Repubs always bring up when a subject like this comes up but can we agree that they really don't give a tinker's damn about you or your situation? When they talk about "small business" they really talking about somewhere between 500-1000 people, anything lower than that doesn't really register with them.

    For those who really believe that complete and utter bullsh!t that doing away with the minimum wage will actually help regular folks because then people and/or companies will actually pay more since they don't have to I say "wake the p**** up" and possibly what the p**** is wrong with you"? Do you really believe everything those arseholes tell you?? Are you really that fooking dense? WTF??????????

    For those who think it's OK for someone to pay someone $2/hour because they're retarded, I wish (more than I wish for world peace, to bang Scarlett Johansson, etc.) that they HAD to work for and live on $2/hour for one year as their only means of support. That little bit of pain and suffering might wake your sorry arse up and keep your out of a devil's hell for all eternity and yes I meant every syllable of that.

    For pieces of sh!t like Kevin O'Leary who say they LIKE the extreme income equality we now face because it gives the dregs of society "something to look up to and strive for (paraphrased but pretty close)" have you ever read the Bible? Did you read the part about the rich man who was going to tear down his barns to build bigger ones so he wouldn't have to work anymore, etc. and he went to hell, can you imagine how far down this prick is going to be unless he changes his tune a LOT??? That's not me talking, that's a MUCH higher power and just because they whorish TV preachers who perform fellatio on the uber wealthy hoping they'll throw some crumbs their way I say to you, "How Dare You". There's a reckoning coming and as much you get pissed off by me I promise you there will be a LOT of aholes who will wish to God they had listened me this ahole some day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    So just to be clear, do you believe that someone who is really incapable of working at nearly the same level as another person, should be paid the same amount?
    sturg, dude, you know I like you, right? I'm afraid that in your haste to get away from the frying pan of the old Neo-Con Repubs you have skidded on the Ron Paul express, over to the Rand Paul express and right off into the fire of some very bad people you don't want to be associated with. I know a person hiring another person has the right to determine the "potential worth" of that person to some extent but we're talking WAY the p**** beyond that. We're talking about Social Darwinism on a Biblical scale and despite what you've been told by some folks who quote the Bible from time to time you'd better get and keep your distance from these people or else they make get some of their fire and brimstone residue on you.

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    OHawk,

    why should a company have to pay someone more than they are worth?

    And, if the minimum wage is raised to say, $10 an hour, what is going to stop McDonalds to going to fully automated registers? (Like they have already begun doing)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oklahomahawk View Post
    sturg, dude, you know I like you, right? I'm afraid that in your haste to get away from the frying pan of the old Neo-Con Repubs you have skidded on the Ron Paul express, over to the Rand Paul express and right off into the fire of some very bad people you don't want to be associated with. I know a person hiring another person has the right to determine the "potential worth" of that person to some extent but we're talking WAY the p**** beyond that. We're talking about Social Darwinism on a Biblical scale and despite what you've been told by some folks who quote the Bible from time to time you'd better get and keep your distance from these people or else they make get some of their fire and brimstone residue on you.
    I'll ask you the same question. Do you believe that someone who is really incapable of working at nearly the same level as another person, should be paid the same amount?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    OHawk,

    why should a company have to pay someone more than they are worth?

    And, if the minimum wage is raised to say, $10 an hour, what is going to stop McDonalds to going to fully automated registers? (Like they have already begun doing)
    Well maybe it'll push some people into doing the right thing. I know you've bought into this whole "the people at the top are the good people" and all the money they make is really just their money and they should be able to treat people the way the want and work them as much as they want in any way that they want and still keep all the profits type.

    Beware of Social Darwinism, it may sound like what you think is "right" but it really isn't what you think it is and there WILL be consequences for treating people that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    I'll ask you the same question. Do you believe that someone who is really incapable of working at nearly the same level as another person, should be paid the same amount?
    Dude, do you hear yourself? You're using a predetermined set of values and "judgements" as to who is capable of what and basically assigning a "worth" to human beings and rest assured what your buddies are doing is no less than that. Should a person ringing up fries at Mcdonalds be paid the same as a brain surgeon? Of course not, but what you are saying and the direction you are headed is dangerously close to what big businesses of 100 years ago were doing when they fired/laid off men from their jobs and paid the children of those men pennies on the dollar in order to make just a few more millions than they were already making. Don't tell me Ron Paul is in favor of treating people like that!! Rand Paul yes, but not his dad. Ron Paul and I may not agree on everything but I believe he is a decent human being, unlike his son who is a lackey for the uber wealthy aholes in this country who literally believe they are a different breed from the low lifes that they can pay any pittance they want because they need a job at their company, which of course never uses any tax breaks or other government perks themselves while they're blasting those same government perks when poor people use them.

    Be very careful of the company you keep my friend.

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    What's wrong with children working in the factories Hawk?

    It'll teach'em a lesson and make them think twice about not focusing on their education. It'll also give them great life skills quick.

    I'm all for going back to the days of children dying and working in sweatshops!

    FREEDOM I SAY! FREEDOM! PATRIOTS DIED FOR THIS COUNTRY SO EMPLOYERS COULD HIRE AND PAY WHOMEVER AND WHATEVER THEY WANT!
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    Might as well pay everyone the same, $30 an hour. Everyone happy, right? Then I don't have to work 60 hours a week or strive toward anything better. I'll work 40 hours a week bagging groceries for that. No prob at all

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilesfan View Post
    Might as well pay everyone the same, $30 an hour. Everyone happy, right? Then I don't have to work 60 hours a week or strive toward anything better. I'll work 40 hours a week bagging groceries for that. No prob at all
    I never said that though it is the usual far right response, make everything into the extreme so nobody sees what you're really up to, right? Think human beings ought to be treated like human beings?? That much mean you're a socialist, right? Well if people who think people should be treated like human beings and treated with a little human dignity, no matter how much/little they're being paid is a socialist, I guess you know what that means those on the other side are acting like, right???

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    So paying someone 7 bucks an hour isn't treating them like human beings?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilesfan View Post
    So paying someone 7 bucks an hour isn't treating them like human beings?
    Come on dude, you're way smarter than this, these people and corporations are manipulating the very systems they created, having 90% of the this country's wealth isn't even enough for them, they won't be happy until they have it all, or until they start a sh!tstorm they regret for the rest of their lives, and they have good people like you defending them. Oh and by the way they only pay $7/hour very grudgingly, they and their mouthpiece POS's like Michelle Bachmann think that's too much, it should be more like $2. And if you REALLY want to know my stance on minimum wage and what the real problems are in this country go back up a couple of posts and read the whole thing instead of falling for the "find one phrase I can pick on" mentality. Dude, you are WAY better than that.

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    There is a market for what an employee brings to the table. If you spend 4 years going to college and incur massive loan debts, you are typically going to make more money than someone who does not. There is a. Reward for how much time you but in, how much stress you have to incure, how talented you are, and hob many people can do that job. Does it suck for mei don't have the talent of Lebron James and I win ever be a millionaire? Sure. All I can do is work my ass off, go to college, and then work my ass off some more. For that, I get to make a salary more than the minimum wage.

    However, now they raise minimum wage a ridiculous $3 per hour which is going to drive up costs (which means the minimum wage people are going to be affected most by higher food cost). And who loses out in all of this? The middle class. The people that work their ass off to support their family on 40k a year who don't get the benefits of a pay raise, but have to deal with the higher cost of supplies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilesfan View Post
    There is a market for what an employee brings to the table. If you spend 4 years going to college and incur massive loan debts, you are typically going to make more money than someone who does not. There is a. Reward for how much time you but in, how much stress you have to incure, how talented you are, and hob many people can do that job. Does it suck for mei don't have the talent of Lebron James and I win ever be a millionaire? Sure. All I can do is work my ass off, go to college, and then work my ass off some more. For that, I get to make a salary more than the minimum wage.

    However, now they raise minimum wage a ridiculous $3 per hour which is going to drive up costs (which means the minimum wage people are going to be affected most by higher food cost). And who loses out in all of this? The middle class. The people that work their ass off to support their family on 40k a year who don't get the benefits of a pay raise, but have to deal with the higher cost of supplies.
    And welcome to the biggest problem with the American job system. People who go to school are presumed to have a certain advanced quality that simply doesn't exist in most fields. Someone going to a 4 year school for a communication degree doesn't have an advanced skill that makes them more customer service ready and get a higher paying job at a call center. Or you can apply that to a number of other things as well. Unless you're going into something that requires an advanced specialized knowledge (Doctor, lawyer, etc.) on the job training is way more valuable than going to school.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zitothebrave View Post
    And welcome to the biggest problem with the American job system. People who go to school are presumed to have a certain advanced quality that simply doesn't exist in most fields. Someone going to a 4 year school for a communication degree doesn't have an advanced skill that makes them more customer service ready and get a higher paying job at a call center. Or you can apply that to a number of other things as well. Unless you're going into something that requires an advanced specialized knowledge (Doctor, lawyer, etc.) on the job training is way more valuable than going to school.
    Most degrees are specialized knowledge.


    In general, the people of higher intelligence will got college and perform better at their jobs. College degree plus on the job training is better than no college degree.

    Of course you have the point of view Ipof so won't that didn't go to college. (Or couldn't)

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilesfan View Post
    There is a market for what an employee brings to the table. If you spend 4 years going to college and incur massive loan debts, you are typically going to make more money than someone who does not. There is a. Reward for how much time you but in, how much stress you have to incure, how talented you are, and hob many people can do that job. Does it suck for mei don't have the talent of Lebron James and I win ever be a millionaire? Sure. All I can do is work my ass off, go to college, and then work my ass off some more. For that, I get to make a salary more than the minimum wage.

    However, now they raise minimum wage a ridiculous $3 per hour which is going to drive up costs (which means the minimum wage people are going to be affected most by higher food cost). And who loses out in all of this? The middle class. The people that work their ass off to support their family on 40k a year who don't get the benefits of a pay raise, but have to deal with the higher cost of supplies.
    Well you changed your angle of rebuttal and ignored most of the stuff I said earlier but I do compliment you on this post, you actually put thought and effort into it rather that the last couple that we're very Talk Radio-like "pick a detail from the other guy's argument usually out of context, form an argument with that actually has little or nothing to do with the original statement, but that fits your ideology and slams the other sides statement though it didn't actually speak to that statement at all".

    Now if I can just get you to put as much more effort into your next post than you did into this one (compared with your last two) we'll be actually getting places. I see you either didn't go back and read my previous posts saying that raising the minimum wage wasn't the long term answer to the problems going on right now or you ignored it because it didn't go along with your argument.

    I know the Repubs have convinced you guys that it's the poor, lazy, stupid, "takers" who are the problem but the wealthy and big businesses have been raping the treasury since the 1980's and right now the top 20% (of which I may actually fit into just barely if you don't take into account that my tax rate is the same as the top 1% and I don't have the fancy lawyers and accountants to hide mine) own 90% of the wealth in this country. Is there any way to say that's healthy?

    I know the Repubs also like to preach that it's a free market economy but that's BS and we both know it. Those at the top end make the rules for the other people at the top end and they make the rules for those at the bottom end. Do those at the bottom end make the rules for anybody??? During the financial meltdown while everybody else in the country was hurting their wealth went up again!!! They're screwing us all every single day and they've got you guys feeling sorry for the fact that they, unlike the Sandra Fluke chick, have to buy their own damn protection while they screw us. While they lament having to pay all that income tax for the freeloaders they pretend that the bottom 80% of Americans have to divide 10% of the wealth. Where are those taxes supposed to come from?? That money doesn't exist, except in the offshore accounts of those people you guys live to defend.

    Think about it this way, a couple of years ago when that sorry piece of sh!t John Mara told his lapdog Roger Goddell to punish the Cowboys and the Redskins for breaking a rule that didn't exist!! It was nothing more than a wink-wink good old boys agreement. It wasn't even legal, those things all have to be voted on and agreed upon by a majority of owners. There was no such agreement, but remember how just about every person on the old board where we talked about that stuff said it was fine and it really WAS a rule and that Dallas and Washington had it coming because even though it wasn't really a rule in the classic sense they knew better than to do it so they asked for it. Remember that? Remember how you were able to see through the BS and called them on it? Remember how they didn't care because they were only going along with things because that's the way they already thought about those things and no amount of facts could convince them?

    Fox News and the far right websites and talk radio have spent millions to make billions and they have Jedi mind tricked a lot of good people into going along with a plan that if they would just take a minute and unwrap the flag from around their eyes, they could see the whole damn thing and how they're being used.

    That kind of action is hard though, it makes people question things they don't feel comfortable questioning, it's easier to just go along with those in charge, I mean after all who cares if Washington and Dallas get punished while the prick Gepetto pulling the strings conveniently hurts his competition by enforcing a rule that doesn't exist or if a person trying to support their family lost their job to India and works at Burger King now (instead of going on welfare). I mean why fight it? It's the natural order of things for those trying to earn the American dream, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilesfan View Post
    Most degrees are specialized knowledge.


    In general, the people of higher intelligence will got college and perform better at their jobs. College degree plus on the job training is better than no college degree.

    Of course you have the point of view Ipof so won't that didn't go to college. (Or couldn't)
    Your autocorrect went wonky and that last sentence is entirely incoherent. And I got into every college I applied to. Including someones that were very selective.

    If you had evena a moderate pulse on the way things run in American college and have run for some time, you'd realize that's not the case. There's a college that will let anyone in, cause they care about money. Sure someoen going to Princeton, Harvard, Yale, etc. gets in cause of higher intelligence, but trust me pretty much anyone can get into a college.

    And you should look up the definition of most. Specialized knowledge isn't something you can learn on the job in a year or 2.
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    People who rack up bills in school obviously did not think about career field and pay. If you are into extreme fields like Anthropology/Art and even Literature there is not a market for you in today's world. If you love that field, you need to understand that it won't make you rich monetarily but for your heart it is worth it. That is the decision you make.

    I started at Embry Riddle, wanted to work for the NTSB, but after one semester of looking at dead bodies and what happened to them in a plane crash, I said to myself, any gore is not for me. My love growing up was computers and my degree is in programming and yes I did the Palin route because I went to Europe, first to work for a conglomerate and played professional basketball on the side with their consent.

    If they raise minimum wage for people who just flip burgers than all of us programmers and engineers should get the same raise, but we won't.

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