Minimum Wage

[jpx7]

From a Daily Show segment (but transcription c/o The Poopington Huff):

Schiff: "If we eliminated the minimum wage law then individuals would be free to accept jobs at whatever pay they're able to get."

Bee: "Paint me a picture of a person whose work would be worth $2 an hour."

Schiff: "You know somebody who might be? Maybe somebody who is, uh, you know, what's the politically correct word? Uh, you know, uh, for, uh, you know, mentally retarded?"

Bee: [...]

Schiff: "I'm not going to say that we're all created equal... you're worth what you're worth."

I'm assuming this is poetry to the eyes of the "free to work for what you will" crowd, but to me this illustrates exactly why we should be very, very wary of letting the capitalist overlords start paying whatever wage they'd like and then letting us "decide" that we'll work for it.

[AerchAngel]

I don't mind the minimum wage, but I do mind that us middle-class worth will go down because of it because we have to charge people more because we have to pay more in salaries.

Wife probably has to raise her rates in conjunction with the pay hike so she can make the same profits as last year. Right now she hasn't, but she is looking at returns last year and projecting what happens this year.

We are far from rich and living paycheck to paycheck like everyone else. Work was nice to give us a raise to buffer Obamination care. They raised our insurance from 180 to 200 a month for a family and no change in deductibles. The boss said our salaries will still be the same to reflect the change, but the owner is not happy about it.

[Oklahomahawk]

I don't mind the minimum wage, but I do mind that us middle-class worth will go down because of it because we have to charge people more because we have to pay more in salaries.

Wife probably has to raise her rates in conjunction with the pay hike so she can make the same profits as last year. Right now she hasn't, but she is looking at returns last year and projecting what happens this year.

We are far from rich and living paycheck to paycheck like everyone else. Work was nice to give us a raise to buffer Obamination care. They raised our insurance from 180 to 200 a month for a family and no change in deductibles. The boss said our salaries will still be the same to reflect the change, but the owner is not happy about it.

I had this discussion the other day with some uber-lib friends. I told them I wasn't necessarily against raising the minimum wage, but I thought their enthusiasm about it really fixing a lot of things was horribly misplaced. I think taxing the living sh!t out of people and corporations who send jobs overseas is WAY overdue and that and only that sort of thing will ever really fix our current job problems.

A couple of things just to make the far right crowd angry with me, not that they ever get otherwise really.

First AA, I feel for you and your wife's situation. You guys are the ones the Repubs always bring up when a subject like this comes up but can we agree that they really don't give a tinker's damn about you or your situation? When they talk about "small business" they really talking about somewhere between 500-1000 people, anything lower than that doesn't really register with them.

For those who really believe that complete and utter bullsh!t that doing away with the minimum wage will actually help regular folks because then people and/or companies will actually pay more since they don't have to I say "wake the p**** up" and possibly what the p**** is wrong with you"? Do you really believe everything those arseholes tell you?? Are you really that fooking dense? WTF??????????

For those who think it's OK for someone to pay someone $2/hour because they're retarded, I wish (more than I wish for world peace, to bang Scarlett Johansson, etc.) that they HAD to work for and live on $2/hour for one year as their only means of support. That little bit of pain and suffering might wake your sorry arse up and keep your out of a devil's hell for all eternity and yes I meant every syllable of that.

For pieces of sh!t like Kevin O'Leary who say they LIKE the extreme income equality we now face because it gives the dregs of society "something to look up to and strive for (paraphrased but pretty close)" have you ever read the Bible? Did you read the part about the rich man who was going to tear down his barns to build bigger ones so he wouldn't have to work anymore, etc. and he went to hell, can you imagine how far down this prick is going to be unless he changes his tune a LOT??? That's not me talking, that's a MUCH higher power and just because they whorish TV preachers who perform fellatio on the uber wealthy hoping they'll throw some crumbs their way I say to you, "How Dare You". There's a reckoning coming and as much you get pissed off by me I promise you there will be a LOT of aholes who will wish to God they had listened me this ahole some day.

[sturg33]

OHawk,

why should a company have to pay someone more than they are worth?

And, if the minimum wage is raised to say, $10 an hour, what is going to stop McDonalds to going to fully automated registers? (Like they have already begun doing)

[Oklahomahawk]

OHawk,

why should a company have to pay someone more than they are worth?

And, if the minimum wage is raised to say, $10 an hour, what is going to stop McDonalds to going to fully automated registers? (Like they have already begun doing)

Well maybe it'll push some people into doing the right thing. I know you've bought into this whole "the people at the top are the good people" and all the money they make is really just their money and they should be able to treat people the way the want and work them as much as they want in any way that they want and still keep all the profits type.

Beware of Social Darwinism, it may sound like what you think is "right" but it really isn't what you think it is and there WILL be consequences for treating people that way.

[sturg33]

Well maybe it'll push some people into doing the right thing. I know you've bought into this whole "the people at the top are the good people" and all the money they make is really just their money and they should be able to treat people the way the want and work them as much as they want in any way that they want and still keep all the profits type.

Beware of Social Darwinism, it may sound like what you think is "right" but it really isn't what you think it is and there WILL be consequences for treating people that way.

I just don't understand how you think the government should force a company to pay a certain amount for labor - even if that labor isn't worth it (a mentally retarded person, for example, would probably not be worth $10 an hour when they could get a non-mentally retarded person)

You act like eliminating the minimum wage will allow companies to start paying $1/hr. Who the hell would work for $1 and hour? You act like a decrease in minimum wage is also a decrease in workers self-worth. It's not. If someone offered me a job for $1 an hour, I'd just go to the street corent and make $20 in that same hour. Businesses will still have to meet the demands of the labor market.

[sturg33]

From a Daily Show segment (but transcription c/o The Poopington Huff):



I'm assuming this is poetry to the eyes of the "free to work for what you will" crowd, but to me this illustrates exactly why we should be very, very wary of letting the capitalist overlords start paying whatever wage they'd like and then letting us "decide" that we'll work for it.

So just to be clear, do you believe that someone who is really incapable of working at nearly the same level as another person, should be paid the same amount?

[Oklahomahawk]

So just to be clear, do you believe that someone who is really incapable of working at nearly the same level as another person, should be paid the same amount?

sturg, dude, you know I like you, right? I'm afraid that in your haste to get away from the frying pan of the old Neo-Con Repubs you have skidded on the Ron Paul express, over to the Rand Paul express and right off into the fire of some very bad people you don't want to be associated with. I know a person hiring another person has the right to determine the "potential worth" of that person to some extent but we're talking WAY the p**** beyond that. We're talking about Social Darwinism on a Biblical scale and despite what you've been told by some folks who quote the Bible from time to time you'd better get and keep your distance from these people or else they make get some of their fire and brimstone residue on you.

[sturg33]

sturg, dude, you know I like you, right? I'm afraid that in your haste to get away from the frying pan of the old Neo-Con Repubs you have skidded on the Ron Paul express, over to the Rand Paul express and right off into the fire of some very bad people you don't want to be associated with. I know a person hiring another person has the right to determine the "potential worth" of that person to some extent but we're talking WAY the p**** beyond that. We're talking about Social Darwinism on a Biblical scale and despite what you've been told by some folks who quote the Bible from time to time you'd better get and keep your distance from these people or else they make get some of their fire and brimstone residue on you.

I'll ask you the same question. Do you believe that someone who is really incapable of working at nearly the same level as another person, should be paid the same amount?

[Oklahomahawk]

I'll ask you the same question. Do you believe that someone who is really incapable of working at nearly the same level as another person, should be paid the same amount?

Dude, do you hear yourself? You're using a predetermined set of values and "judgements" as to who is capable of what and basically assigning a "worth" to human beings and rest assured what your buddies are doing is no less than that. Should a person ringing up fries at Mcdonalds be paid the same as a brain surgeon? Of course not, but what you are saying and the direction you are headed is dangerously close to what big businesses of 100 years ago were doing when they fired/laid off men from their jobs and paid the children of those men pennies on the dollar in order to make just a few more millions than they were already making. Don't tell me Ron Paul is in favor of treating people like that!! Rand Paul yes, but not his dad. Ron Paul and I may not agree on everything but I believe he is a decent human being, unlike his son who is a lackey for the uber wealthy aholes in this country who literally believe they are a different breed from the low lifes that they can pay any pittance they want because they need a job at their company, which of course never uses any tax breaks or other government perks themselves while they're blasting those same government perks when poor people use them.

Be very careful of the company you keep my friend.

[The Chosen One]

What's wrong with children working in the factories Hawk?

It'll teach'em a lesson and make them think twice about not focusing on their education. It'll also give them great life skills quick.

I'm all for going back to the days of children dying and working in sweatshops!

FREEDOM I SAY! FREEDOM! PATRIOTS DIED FOR THIS COUNTRY SO EMPLOYERS COULD HIRE AND PAY WHOMEVER AND WHATEVER THEY WANT!

[sturg33]

Dude, do you hear yourself? You're using a predetermined set of values and "judgements" as to who is capable of what and basically assigning a "worth" to human beings and rest assured what your buddies are doing is no less than that. Should a person ringing up fries at Mcdonalds be paid the same as a brain surgeon? Of course not, but what you are saying and the direction you are headed is dangerously close to what big businesses of 100 years ago were doing when they fired/laid off men from their jobs and paid the children of those men pennies on the dollar in order to make just a few more millions than they were already making. Don't tell me Ron Paul is in favor of treating people like that!! Rand Paul yes, but not his dad. Ron Paul and I may not agree on everything but I believe he is a decent human being, unlike his son who is a lackey for the uber wealthy aholes in this country who literally believe they are a different breed from the low lifes that they can pay any pittance they want because they need a job at their company, which of course never uses any tax breaks or other government perks themselves while they're blasting those same government perks when poor people use them.

Be very careful of the company you keep my friend.

No. See, I'm not the one assigning a "worth" to a human being. That's what you're doing. You saying a worker is "worth" x/hr. I'm saying that he is worth whatever he and the employer mutually agree to.

[Krgrecw]

Raising the minimum wage would have the same effect on lower middle to lower class that Obamacare did. You're screwing the masses to help a few.

To be frank a lot of people don't work not because of the minimum wage, they don't work because they make more off of government assistance. Raising the minimum wage won't fix that problem. Fixing the govt assistance problems would have a better effect on the overall economy not a policy where you overpay for entry level no-skill jobs and small companies can't afford that

[Tapate50]

It certainly depends on the case—which is why I said "generally"—but I don't think a criminal record should automatically disqualify a person for a job position, especially if their individual incident/jail-time occurred some years in the past, and/or if they have, say, a decent record working a less-scrutinized job with no complaints from their manager/employer.

Also, on the topic of case-by-case: if the position is "truck driver," and the individual's responsibilities include literally driving a truck from point-a to point-b, it seems as far a liability is concerned "driving record" is a lot more salient than "criminal record," while in the case "exterminators" the "criminal record" would be a lot more salient than "driving record," as far as the sorts of liabilities you mention are concerned.

Well.....of course.

[Tapate50]

How much of the gen pop at minimum wage don't meet those qualifications you think?

[thethe]

If I owned my own business I would not hire anyone with a criminal record. Why risk my livelihood to someone who has at one point shown they are capable of doing things not accepted by society. This is of course excluding foolish drug laws with weed.

[jpx7]

If I owned my own business I would not hire anyone with a criminal record. Why risk my livelihood to someone who has at one point shown they are capable of doing things not accepted by society.

Then don't blame convicted criminals when they return to crime.

The lack of viable employment opportunities for people trying to escape the carceral cycle is a big reason for the recidivism we see.

[AerchAngel]

Then don't blame convicted criminals when they return to crime.

The lack of viable employment opportunities for people trying to escape the carceral cycle is a big reason for the recidivism we see.

They either sit at home, smoke weed, drugs and what not because they cannot get a job on our dime/or go back to prison.

So what is your suggestion. They have a right to have a good job and don't say they must work at minimum wage for the rest of their life.

A 20 year old cashed worthless checks from a Nigeria Scam Artist and gets 5 years and have a felony record. Should he be punished for life because of something he did at 20 and was too naive to get suckered?

[thethe]

Then don't blame convicted criminals when they return to crime.

The lack of viable employment opportunities for people trying to escape the carceral cycle is a big reason for the recidivism we see.

My viewpoint is coming from a small business owner who doesn't have adequate reserves/insurance/goodwill to survive from an incident. This is not inclusive of big business.

But, as a small business owner its not a risk worth taking.

[jpx7]

How much of the gen pop at minimum wage don't meet those qualifications you think?

I am unfortunately not qualified to speculate on that figure—but I'd say probably somewhere between more than I think and less than you think.