Spirits and Cocktails

[jpx7]

This thread has been a long time coming, as far as I'm concerned, but [MENTION=6]zitothebrave[/MENTION]'s comments—to some of which I will respond below as a first foray into this all-important subject—finally spurred me to action.

Unless you're a hipster or a time traveler from the prohibition era, who cares about gin.

I love gin—but I may be one or both of those things.

Gimlet - 4 parts gin 1 part lime (hard to do in ounces since you never want more than a half ounce of lime unless someone requests it heavy)

Not hard for me: I make enough cocktails that I almost always have fresh citrus on-hand. Your gimlet recipe's also missing 0.25 ounces simple-syrup.

Yellow Rose of Texas - 4 parts tequila 1 part yellow chartruese (sp?) 4 parts pinapple juice fill with club sode

You're making it super pear-shaped with that pineapple juice and club soda; you just need: 2 oz tequila (I like Espolón, but Camarena is good enough and super cheap), 0.5 oz yellow chartreuse, 0.75 oz lemon juice, 0.5 oz simple-syrup; shake, strain, dribble a couple drops of rose-water, then slightly stir.

Aviation - Gin, grenadine, lemon and something I'm forgetting

The crème de violette. A standard, proper Aviation shouldn't have grenadine; it should be: 1.75-2.0 oz gin, 0.5 oz lemon juice, scant 0.5 oz maraschino liqueur, shaken, strained into a coupe, then finished with 0.25 oz crème de violette. Of course, that's if you're using Rothman & Winter; I greatly prefer the Tempus Fugit Liqueur de Violettes, so I use about 0.5 oz of the violette and cut the maraschino a bit more.

I'm assuming by New Standard Manhattan you're going with the Rye, bitters, and sweet vermouth. Though I'm not 100% where you're going since there are many different kinds of Manhattans.

My preferred formulation that I mentioned (which is sourced from David Wondrich's Imbibe) contains 2 oz rye, 1 oz red vermouth (I love Noilly-Prat, but Cinzano is entirely serviceable), a scant bar-spoon of maraschino liqueur, a dash of absinthe, and two dashes Angostura—stirred, naturally, and served in a chilled glass. But you're right: there are countless Manhattan variations, and if I'm substituting a quinquina like Byrrh or Bonal for vermouth then I'm more likely to use a straight 2:1 or even 1:1 mix, with a lesser dash of Angostura.

Personally if I have to pretend to be trendy and drink a mixed drink

I don't drink cocktails because they're trendy; I drink them because they're tasty.

Scotch is superior to Rye.

False. And damn un-American of you.

And Though if I had my way I'd rather have that scotch neat with maybe a few drops of cold water.

A love a good rye and soda (as in fizzy water), either mixed or side-by-side.

Why would I spend 25 bucks on Jack Daniels or Jim Beam

You shouldn't. That's why you learn your brands.

As a smart fellow, I'm sure you know the basic history of the cocktail lets you know that the rise of many of the drinks you listed coincided with prohibition, where you had a switch from whiskey to gin (faster aging) and the reason they added so many ingredients is because the liquor sucks. Now that we live in a world where we don't have to consume inferior booze, I see no reason why I shouldn't just enjoy my quality scotches and bourbons, and what nots.

Plenty of preeminent and primordial cocktails were developed well before the Eighteen Amendment; in a lot of ways, the latter-half of the nineteenth century in the US was the first great cocktail era. Moreover: gin is an awesome spirit, with a great history, and very good gins were cultivated and consumed outside the US before, during, and after Prohibition.

[zitothebrave]

I never said there were no cocktails before prohibition, or that Gin didn't exist before or after. Just stating the facts that the Gin cocktails rose to fame for that reason.

All the recipes I came up with were from a bar I worked at. We didn't readily have available simple syrup or maraschino liqueur. So grenadine was an easy sub for maraschino and I never learned it another way.

And scotch is better than Rye, it's not comparable. I'm happy to admit when someone has us beat (and with Rye being traditionally linked to Canada, who cares?). And the Scottish make the best whiskey in the world. Not that Rye is horrible butt trash, but Scotch is much more subtle in it's complexities. While a Rye can contain any large number or grains as long as it contains some Rye in Canada and at least 51% in the US your complexity often comes from what grain is chosen so that's your big differentiator. With a single malt scotch, you're dealing with something that's 3 ingredients: barley, water, and yeast. the intricacies have to do with the smoking on the barley, the kilning process and what it does to the barley's flavor, and the water that's used. The difference between Highland and Lowland scotches is the same as the difference between Champagne and sparkling wine.

[jpx7]

Rye, first and foremost, is a northeastern US whiskey; they Canadians just pimped it harder after the US went bourbon crazy—and I definitely like a good bourbon, but I'm a rye man through and through.

As to scotch being superior to rye: I think you're crazy in that regard. I've tried a decent amount of scotch, and know more about scotches than I ever planned to know thanks to friends et cetera, but so far I've really only been able to place them into two categories: "hate" and "tolerate." I don't besmirch or begrudge the scotch drink; it's just not my spirit—though I do think rye is just plain better.

[zitothebrave]

Scotch requires a patient tongue. Drinking a random glass every now and then and you won't really love it. Drink a few tastings every few weeks and you'll slowly pickup the intricacies. Single malt scotch is "harsh" on the palette in the same way that an IPA is a full on assault on your palette, not for everyone. But the Scotch is the king of the whiskeys. The American/Canadian/Japanese/Irish varieties all have strengths, but they all fall short to King Scotch and it's brilliance If you're not a single malt fan, that's fine, you can enjoy your Ryes or Bourbons (I personally prefer generally bourbon's to ryes for their cleanliness but I do enjoy a funky rye every now and then, just not worth it to overstock my liquor shelf like I do with Scotches)

[jpx7]

If I want something smoky and "harsh," I just drink mezcal.

I've done tastings some scotch tastings, and I've tried as much as I care to try, at least for the time being—scotch just isn't worth it to me.

And, honestly: if you're arguing in favor of the virtues of a patient tongue, then you're really honor-bound to give gins another try, because the same can be said about that spirit.

[zitothebrave]

Did you just compare single malt Scotch to Mezcal

Gin is eh. I'm not into juniper berries. Not my thing. I don't massively disdain gin like i do cheap vodka/tequila.

Gimme my single malt scotches is awesome. Nothing out there compares to it.

[jpx7]

Did you just compare single malt Scotch to Mezcal

I'm neither the first nor last to draw the comparison; it's pretty apt, from flavor-profiles right down to the individuated, highly-localized production.

Nothing out there compares to it.

See, I just can't agree: it's your preference, but there's so much more awesome out there in the world of spirits and cocktails that, even if I loved scotch, I could never limit myself.

For instance: the negroni. That's a damn delicious niche scotch or scotch-based cocktails could never fill.

[zitothebrave]

What a shocker, you love another gin drink

I don't limit myself to Scotch, but of all the various drinks I"ve had Scotch is the only one worth me owning several versions of.

[jpx7]

What a shocker, you love another gin drink

A negroni isn't a gin drink, it's a Campari and Cinzano drink with some gin stirred into it.

[Hawk]

I love gin because it tastes amazing -- crisp, clean, nice finish. Hendrick's is my go to, will sometimes opt for Tanqueray/Beefeaters when I'm at a bar. Straight G&T. Homemade tonic syrup; experimenting with different bitters (currently Angostura) ... drop of simple syrup, fresh lime juice, chipped ice, San Pellegrino. Boom.

I only enjoy very simple cocktails (with fresh citrus/fruits only). I don't like to mix my spirits. I don't drink Tequila willingly.

Discovered good alcohol when I studied abroad in England (aged 19-20). Drank way too much Scotch because (at the time) I literally could not drink beer. J&B, Laphroaig, Glenfiddich, etc. Usually destroyed with Coke (the lower-case comes later). Then I found Johnny Walker BLACK which I could enjoy straight-on with ice and it revolutionized the way I drank. Came back home, and prime Scotch was way more expensive, so segued into Bourbon -- Maker's and Woodford.

I'm traveling through Hungary now and am enjoying two local liquers: Unicum and Palinka. Tomorrow, I fly to Poland, and I'm much looking forward to getting hammered on potato wodka.

[jpx7]

Tomorrow, I fly to Poland, and I'm much looking forward to getting hammered on potato wodka.

Stay on the lookout for this, too. Not something unavailable in the US, but a very interesting spirit, and I presume it has to be better from the source.

[zitothebrave]

A negroni isn't a gin drink, it's a Campari and Cinzano drink with some gin stirred into it.

Recipe I was taught was equal parts Gin, Campari and sweet vermouth.

Otherwise what's the point? as the drink would be all light boozes.

[zitothebrave]

BTW my thoughts on a few cocktails I've had over the years.

Godfather - Good blend of scotch and amaretto, good wedding booze, where you're dealing with cruddy scotches.

Cosmopolitans - Don't drink them almost ever but I've been bought a few before (don't ask, it's weird) and it's really just a kamakazi with cranberry juice, super weird that it's a popular drink.

Sidecar - sweeeeeeeeet. It's so sweet. I don't get people lvoing it.

Rusty Nail - not a terrible drink. Kind of weird but it does well with a decent blended scotch.

Old Fashioned - Rye fo course. Kind of fun to make for people who like feeling special.

Personally I prefer for cocktails the wintery varieties that are heavy on booze with some cream involved. Very warming. Next christmas I'm trying to have a christmas party, and I want to make Wassail. I want to make 2 ideally if I can get it to work, the first being a traditional with some ESB. Second would be mead based but making it from a Cranberry Melomel instead of a classic honey only mead.

[jpx7]

Recipe I was taught was equal parts Gin, Campari and sweet vermouth.

Those are the proportions, yes; my comment concerned the flavor-profile. I don't think of the negroni as a "gin drink", in terms of flavor-profile or character or specific qualities: I think of it as an Americano with gin instead of seltzer.

[jpx7]

Cosmopolitans - I've been bought a few before (don't ask, it's weird)

Well now I have to ask.

Sidecar - sweeeeeeeeet. It's so sweet. I don't get people lvoing it.

They're a bit sweet for my tastes, too, but I'll make my own once in awhile to feature (and mellow a bit with sweetness) an otherwise strong, punchy cognac (like Pierre Ferrand 1840, which is what I usually stock at home). A good trick is to cut the Cointeau down from 1.0 oz to 0.75 oz, equal to the lemon juice—but in general a lot of these pre-Prohibition cocktails skew much sweeter, I assume because people in the nineteenth century had janked-up palettes from all the tobacco and heavy-metal-laden water and over-salted, over-sulfited cured meats, and also sugars were a bit more of a novelty, not being extracted from corn and injected into every-damn-thing on the market.

For a much more awesome, much less sweet, equally-traditional cognac-based cocktail, try the Vieux Carré:

3/4 oz rye whiskey
3/4 oz cognac
3/4 oz red vermouth
1 barspoon Bénédictine
2 dashes Peychaud's
2 dashes Angsotura
Brandied cherry (optional)

[zitothebrave]

Well now I have to ask.

I night bartended at a bar that was frequented by cougars and was really lax on their rules about accepting drinks. Anyway apparently I have some odd magnetic pull towards women over 40. Anyway I double met this same group of women when I was in sales then bartending, and they kept feeding me drinks and taking me "home" not my proudest or least proudest moment.

[NinersSBChamps]

Zito is a God of alcohol.

[zitothebrave]

I'm excited that american craft spirits are starting to build up. NJ just got their first one in a long time.

[Tapate50]

The only spirits I enjoy are beer, small batch whiskey, scotch, and red wine. I can get more specific if needed, but really there is no need in all this mixer business.

[zitothebrave]

You listed 2 spirits, a wine, and a malt beverage. COME ON