Last edited by TURBO; 12-04-2023 at 01:50 AM.
jpx7 (12-04-2023)
Curious how much cash?
50PoundHead (12-04-2023)
Gonzales slots in as a 4, signed at $12M this year with a to-be-declined option for 2025. He’s got excellent control, a good pitch mix including a decent breaking ball and cutter, a fine change, but quite possibly the slowest four seam velo in MLB. He could eat 180 innings at a 4.00 ERA, which with our offense has value. I wouldn’t let him anywhere near the mound in October.
White is owed $15M over the next couple years (one of those deals signed before they reach the majors) and just flat cannot hit. Like, 40% K rate cannot hit. He’s been hurt, too, but that doesn’t matter. Expect to see him soak up time in Gwinnett or given his release.
Kelenic is very interesting as a post-hype candidate. He was an immature brat with five tools and spectacular success at every level (he was a unit with Julio Rodriguez, and the question was which future hall of famer would be forced out of center) and a looonnnggg swing that got exposed at the MLB level. After a couple years of getting his ass handed to him he shut up and did the work of cutting down his swing in Tacoma, made the team as a starter last year and lit it up (.900 OPS) for six weeks. Then he got big again and lost his swing, scuffled for about two months, kicked a water cooler, broke his foot and really pissed off Dipoto to the point where….well, we have him now. He’s still only 24, and presumably sufficiently humbled to where he might be willing to work with somebody like Seitzer and get his stroke back, because in early ‘23, it was glorious. He could go .280/.380/.550 or .160/.230/.310. Lot of control left, either four or five years.
Last edited by GovClintonTyree; 12-04-2023 at 08:38 AM.
buck75 (12-04-2023)
Good trade imo. Kelenic still has good upside. Doesnt even need to improve all that much from last year to be a valuable player. I think he had a bit of a toxic relationship with the Mariners due to issues about service time back when he came up. He seems like a prime change of scenery player. He hit for more power away from Safeco field so if he could just improve to .260/.330/.450 I would be pretty happy with that. I would slot him in 9th spot in the batting order with Acuna hitting behind him and see if that helps.
Marco Gonzalez was a fairly consistent 4 ERA SP before last year. I think he is solid depth going into the season since we know its hard to predict health in the rotation. We desperately needed LH options for the rotation. With our offense a solid 4 ERA pitcher is great for the back end of the rotation. Plus theres upside with his option for 2025 if he regains his form. We already know we need a LHSP in 2025 because Fried will likely be gone.
I dont know what the deal with Evan White is. Supposedly a good defender at 1B who was more of a contact hitter coming out of college but became more of a power hitter. Maybe the Mariners had him change his approach at the plate. Maybe the Braves see him as a bench bat and possible late game defensive replacement. We dont really need power from the bench bats so maybe he can focus on just getting base hits rather than hitting for power.
"Donald Trump will serve a second term as president of the United States.
It’s over."
Little Thethe Nov 19, 2020.
jpx7 (12-04-2023)
Yeah, I like the trade, too. Gonzales can help in the short run. I think his option’s a little rich ($15m) to pick up for ‘25, but assuming his nerve problem is cleaned up, he really is a fine back of rotation guy. I didn’t know we’d be shopping in the dented can section for a starter, but whatever.
The question with Kelenic is humility. He seemed as disappointed in himself as Dipoto was last year, so he’s a good change-of-scenery candidate. But he napalmed that bridge with Dipoto. In ‘21 he had a big spring training after having a big AAA year the year before and felt he’d earned the job in Seattle and when Dipoto thought he needed a little more finishing Kelenic was a real peckerhead about it, running his mouth to his teammates, the press, anyone who would listen.
Turned out Jerry was right. But I don’t think Jerry ever got over him being a punk. He doesn’t have all that history here and maybe he’s a little older and wiser. He’s always going to be fiery, but I’d rather have to manage that fire down than try and build one where none exists.
Could be an amazing trade, could be a complete dud, and costs us nothing to find out.
I will say that if there's a manager in baseball suited to keeping Kelenic on the tracks mentally, it's Snit.
buck75 (12-04-2023)
The way our clubhouse culture is - if Kelenic needs a humbling, then he won’t have to look around to find it. It will come at him quick and hard from every direction.
buck75 (12-04-2023)
Cy's Mom is a pro at handling this.Originally Posted by Hulavol
Ivermectin Man
cajunrevenge (12-04-2023), Garmel (12-04-2023), jpx7 (12-04-2023), The Chosen One (12-04-2023), UNCBlue012 (12-04-2023)
They said humbling not humping
Now Rosenthal is saying we're not keeping Gonzales. Part of another deal, going somewhere else. Interesting.
Does this deal signal Ozuna is on the way out?
Ozuna is still DH
No real split difference last year for Kelenic. In fact he had reverse splits.
Above average vs both and maybe a lot still to unlock.
jpx7 (12-04-2023)
Hits much better out of safeco. Probably an average LF now, with more to tap and long term control (paraphrased from FG)
Ivermectin Man
jpx7 (12-04-2023)
I know something about Kelenic from having him on a keeper fantasy team for a number of years. He was a GOD at AAA, but then would be called up and be terrible at the ML level, sent down, and instantly GOD again. Terribly frustrating! He seemed to have figured things out early last year, so maybe that can carry over.
jpx7 (12-05-2023)
I figured as much when I saw the deal. Gonzalez is a fungible arm, but I don't think he adds much to our equation. Could be a piece in a deal for either Cease or Glasnow (more likely Glasnow given the White Sox--dumb as they are--don't see Gonzalez as sensible for a rebuild).
Don't understand the inclusion of White from our side of the deal at all. At least Gwinnett will have a former first-round pick playing 1B.
Phillips was highly touted when drafted in 2022 even after undergoing Tommy John Surgery his senior year in high school. Has yet to throw a professional pitch and the Mariners only have three years to figure out if he belongs on the 40-man or not.
Kelenic has a pretty good ceiling, but I imagine the risk is fairly high that he doesn't reach it. Working with Seitzer may help. High K-rate.
White's inclusion is pretty obvious....salary dump for the Ms. They used Kelenic to offload the salary of the other guys.
50PoundHead (12-04-2023), jpx7 (12-05-2023)
The mystery to me is the inclusion of Gonzales. If AA is just going to turn around and give him away, why didn't the Ms just do that? Why use AA as the middleman?
The only thing I can think of is the Ms needed to unload that money NOW to make a push for Ohtani.
jpx7 (12-05-2023)
I think the Mariners are banking their end of the deal on Phillips developing. Kelenic is interesting, but the other two were pure salary dumps with the Mariners sending along $4.5 MM to cushion a bit of that for the Braves.
The Mariners including Gonzalez probably got them Phillips. I don't know if Gonzalez by himself nets that good (however risky) a prospect from someone else.
jpx7 (12-05-2023)
I think it's likely that Gonzales won't be given away. We'll essentially pay someone else to take him. In a deal for Cease for instance, if we included him we'd probably have to eat a fair bit of what he's owed or else increase the prospect capital going to Chicago. But doing so will save us some money at least.
Gonzales has some use for a rebuilding team needing some innings eaten but considering the contract he has negative trade value. The M's didn't give him away because no one would just take him. They paid us Kelenic to take him. We'll have to pay someone else something to take him.
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