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Thread: Fangraphs Top 100 Prospects

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    Fangraphs Top 100 Prospects

    Out today: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2024-top-100-prospects/.

    Smith-Shawver at 63, Waldrep at 85.


    Smith-Shawver was a two-sport star in high school who committed to Texas Tech for football (quarterback) and baseball. He was drafted as a long-term project with a big frame (6-foot-3, 205 pounds), present arm strength, and a loose, efficient arm action that portended secondary pitch development. Smith-Shawver began to throw harder pretty quickly after he got to pro ball, with his riding fastball parked in the 93-96 mph range for entire starts in 2023 and peaking above. The Braves augmented his release point a little bit, and it has created more lateral action on his formerly velo-reliant slider than that pitch had in 2022. They also added a mid-70s rainbow curveball that has a shape that complements his fastball; it often has a little arm-side action on it that should help make it a weapon against lefties as Smith-Shawver gets feel for it.

    Smith-Shawver rapidly ascended through High- and Double-A at the beginning of 2023, spent most of the year at Triple-A Gwinnett, and got a five-start cup of coffee in Atlanta before making the Braves’ playoff roster as a reliever. His surface stats leave a little bit to be desired — he walked 15% of hitters at Gwinnett, and his strikeout rate plummeted once he was in the big leagues — but let’s consider the context here. Smith-Shawver made the bigs less than two years after being drafted as a two-sport high school athlete. He did so while undergoing meaningful mechanical and repertoire tweaks, and he has the build, athleticism and mechanical attributes of a workhorse mid-rotation starter. He needs to find a more consistent release point to avoid a move to the bullpen, but it’s appropriate to project on this because many of AJ’s component parts are so new and malleable. Currently projected to be Atlanta’s sixth starter when camp breaks, Smith-Shawver is forecast here as an eventual mid-rotation stalwart and will be a superior option to Bryce Elder at the back of Atlanta’s rotation as soon as he can corral his feel for locating.



    Waldrep worked just 16 innings as a freshman, but somehow managed to strike out 140 hitters in 90 innings as a sophomore at Southern Miss. He transferred to Florida for his junior year and had a nearly identical season, this time blowing away SEC hitters for most of the season. He ranked sixth on the 2023 Draft Board but fell to Atlanta at no. 24 overall due to perceived relief risk and the quality of the rest of the draft class. It has the feel of a Tim Duncan-era Spurs draft pick, an absolute coup for a contender that tends to get the most out of their own prospects and could use, at worst, another late-inning weapon in the near future.

    The Braves pushed Waldrep so quickly after the draft that for a minute it looked like he’d be elevated to their postseason roster in a relief role. If the org chooses to put him on a more direct route to the majors, Waldrep certainly has the stuff to thrive in a high-leverage relief capacity, headlined by his vicious, screwball-style upper-80s changeup. It’s a devastating, airbender-esque pitch that plays against lefties and righties alike. Waldrep’s approach to pitching is such that he likely won’t work efficiently as a starter. His fastball is surprisingly hittable considering its velocity and Waldrep’s vertical arm angle, which should theoretically be helping him create bat-missing, riding life on his heater. He often has to work above the zone with his fastball for it to be effective, and Waldrep runs deep counts because of this. The ability to competently land a breaking ball for a strike contributes to his starter projection here. Waldrep has an upper-80s cutter/slider (or maybe he throws each of those now?) and threw a slower curveball in college, but the curve wasn’t so much a part of his attack after the draft (which is why we’re wondering if he’s added a cutter). Drey Jameson and Reese Olson present recent skill set comps to Waldrep, who has a no. 3 starter’s ceiling and an impact reliever’s floor.

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    I in her are all hoping they have ceilings higher than a #3. If they don’t I have no idea why they couldn’t have been traded for Cease.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    I in her
    Someone’s been seeing Cy’s mom again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    I in her are all hoping they have ceilings higher than a #3. If they don’t I have no idea why they couldn’t have been traded for Cease.
    Because we traded someone with no future here for Sale instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    Because we traded someone with no future here for Sale instead.
    And extended him at a below market rate!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    I in her are all hoping they have ceilings higher than a #3. If they don’t I have no idea why they couldn’t have been traded for Cease.
    Prospect guys are always reluctant to say a pitching prospect has a ceiling higher than a #3. A good many of the aces out there right now were said to have the ceiling of a #3 starter.

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    It usually coincides with refining another pitch or picking up a tick or two on the fb or that walk rate drops.

    I get it. No one likes to swing and miss at prospects a lot but you can allude to more if certain things occur.

    Not sure I remember the write ups on SS99 but a two pitch pitcher review must have screamed relief
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    Scouting analysts do seem very reluctant to give out TOR projections to prospects nowadays. Fangraphs gave Cease MOR upside back in 2019, fwiw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    Because we traded someone with no future here for Sale instead.
    I think the question is would Grissom plus one of the pitching prospects have landed Cease instead of Grissom straight up for Sale. We won't know until we know. There's risk with both of these guys (probably higher with Sale), but the asking price on Cease likely would have included Smith-Shawver and that's probably a non-starter. Still curious if and when Cease is moved by the White Sox. I imagine that depends on where Snell and Montgomery end up.

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    I never really got the hard on some of yall had with Cease. He's had 1 amazing season mixed in with a career of MOR production.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carp View Post
    I never really got the hard on some of yall had with Cease. He's had 1 amazing season mixed in with a career of MOR production.
    MOR is underselling him a bit. He's a classic #2 starter in the prime of his career.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carp View Post
    I never really got the hard on some of yall had with Cease. He's had 1 amazing season mixed in with a career of MOR production.
    Sale has much more upside (with a lot more risk of course).

    But when you're as good as the Braves you take some swings.
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    Quote Originally Posted by striker42 View Post
    Prospect guys are always reluctant to say a pitching prospect has a ceiling higher than a #3. A good many of the aces out there right now were said to have the ceiling of a #3 starter.
    I think that's my point, despite whatever my phone did to auto-mutilate my post.

    Waldrep and AJSS have much higher ceiling than a #3, and if they didn't I have to assume Cease would be in Atlanta rather than the brittle Sale. Elder has the ceiling as a #3, the floor of a AAAA guy, and will most likely settle in as a #5. Waldrep and AJSS have much more potential at this point (though we have ventured into arguing semantics of the word "ceiling").
    Last edited by Enscheff; 02-16-2024 at 11:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 50PoundHead View Post
    I think the question is would Grissom plus one of the pitching prospects have landed Cease instead of Grissom straight up for Sale. We won't know until we know. There's risk with both of these guys (probably higher with Sale), but the asking price on Cease likely would have included Smith-Shawver and that's probably a non-starter. Still curious if and when Cease is moved by the White Sox. I imagine that depends on where Snell and Montgomery end up.
    I suspect the Sox are about to do exactly what the Tigers did with all the SPs like Fulmer and Boyd and at least one other guy they "didn't have to trade", and completely waste Cease's trade value.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    I suspect the Sox are about to do exactly what the Tigers did with all the SPs like Fulmer and Boyd and at least one other guy they "didn't have to trade", and completely waste Cease's trade value.
    My impression as well. White Sox are probably looking to continue in the 100-loss range over the next few years. They remind me of the mid-1980s Braves in that they are bad and don't have enough solid prospects at this juncture to fully rebuild. The Old/Bad combination is not a good one. Cease should be in another uniform by Opening Day. If not, the White Sox will have screwed the pooch.

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    Notably, the Braves had a better showing in the Zips Top 100 for 2024:

    Rank Player Pos. Organization FanGraphs Rank
    35 AJ Smith-Shawver P Atlanta Braves 63
    38 Owen Murphy P Atlanta Braves Unranked
    69 Hurston Waldrep P Atlanta Braves 85
    96 Ignacio Alvarez SS Atlanta Braves Unranked

    Zips has historically done fairly well identifying undervalued talent, so I’m not sad to see Murphy and Alvarez on this list (plus Smith-Shawver a fair bit higher than other lists).
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

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    I may be alone in this, but I worry a little about the reports of Waldrep’s struggles with the strike zone. One report suggested that the ball comes out of his hand differently each pitch.

    While I believe that his stuff is devastating, I am still waiting for him to be able to command his pitches. If it comes out of his hand differently each time, that seems to be a red flag.

    I hope we see some real progress in that regard this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mfree80 View Post
    I may be alone in this, but I worry a little about the reports of Waldrep’s struggles with the strike zone. One report suggested that the ball comes out of his hand differently each pitch.

    While I believe that his stuff is devastating, I am still waiting for him to be able to command his pitches. If it comes out of his hand differently each time, that seems to be a red flag.

    I hope we see some real progress in that regard this year.
    I'm a Florida fan and watched pretty much all of Waldrep's starts last year. I think your concerns are pretty well founded. He would randomly lose control at some points last year (most notably against LSU in game two of the world series finals), but most of what I saw is a guy whose command is the real issue. He can mostly throw strikes, but the command of it was questionable and he'd get hit hard at times because of it. A lot of it is with the splitter, which is absurdly good, but he'll always have questionable command of it just because I think the splitter alone is a tough pitch to command. Also keep in mind he's only been throwing the splitter for about 18 months. And before he started throwing it, he still struck out 140 in 90 innings as a sophomore at Southern Miss before he transferred to UF. So the stuff even outside of the splitter is really, really good.

    What I will also say is that Florida has a great reputation for developing pitchers, but I think the reputation is a little overstated in the current state of the sport. The current UF staff is more old school in their pitching development and behind a lot of major college powers in pitching development. You'll read a lot about pitching calling issues in scouting reports and pre-draft write ups on Waldrep as well, and I think those issues also made it harder on him last year.

    All that to say -- even as a UF fan, I am very high on his potential while moving on from UF and into an organization like the Braves that continuously proves they can develop.

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    Getting him at that draft spot is still ABSURD
    Ivermectin Man

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    Whatever happened to the spin rate guy that we drafted and he had to go to Japan?
    Ivermectin Man

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