Braves sign Ervin Santana to 1 year 14.1M deal

[AUTiger7222]

Sure are a lot of negative people here. I call them "yeah, buts." We could get Kershaw and people would be posting "yeah, but..........."

Here's what I believe. The Braves are better off with Santana than without Santana. He will give us 200+ innings. We need that this year.

200 innings at a 4.50 FIP is good? Okie dokie smokie. I'm done, this just ruins my morning. I'm going back to bed, screw this.

[zitothebrave]

Do picks later than late first like Simmons and Freeman not count?

We still have a pick in the first, just on the sandwich side. And it's the MLB draft, not the NFL draft. Your first and second round picks aren't virtual locks to be starters.

Unless like thewupk said, we have a handshake not to offer Santana arby, I'm fine with this deal. Especially with Beachy just exiting. Hopefully he or Medlen are just temporarily sidelined but this was basically a necessary move.

My guess for the Braves since Minor is only supposed to miss 2 weeks, we go with a loaded pen and a rotation of Julio, Wood, Garcia, and Hale. either we need someone to go on 3 days against the Nats on the 6th or my idea of bullpen game. Those are usually fun. Then if Minor can't go the following week against the Nationals then we bring up someone to make a start, but here's hoping he'll be good to go even if it's a bumpy ride.

[thethe]

I have no idea how park factors work.

Park Factor compares the rate of stats at home vs. the rate of stats on the road. A rate higher than 1.000 favors the hitter. Below 1.000 favors the pitcher. Teams with home games in multiple stadiums list aggregate Park Factors.

[Heyward]

Not a fan since it's just 1-year, bad move.

[Tapate50]

Anyone else thinks this means TJ is inevitable for Meds?

[gilesfan]

WHIP is a terrible stat? So knowing how many base runners per inning a pitcher gives up is a bad thing?

Does it account for types of hits. If he had a whip of 1 but every hit was a homer, would that be good? What if his whip was 1.5, but all singles? Does it take into account how many strikeouts he got?

A major component of whip is hits allowed which is also largely defense related.

[AUTiger7222]

Does it account for types of hits. If he had a whip of 1 but every hit was a homer, would that be good? What if his whip was 1.5, but all singles? Does it take into account how many strikeouts he got?

A major component of whip is hits allowed which is also largely defense related.

Who cares what type of hits they are? All hits are BAD the last time I checked. Your goal as a pitcher is to get every hitter out.

[zitothebrave]

200 innings at a 4.50 FIP is good? Okie dokie smokie. I'm done, this just ruins my morning. I'm going back to bed, screw this.

Again (I believe we had this argument before) , you have to remember that Santana is a tweener pitching about as much time in a more offensive environment as this more pitching friendly environment. Santana's been an average to above average most seasons starter in the rate stats and is about as durable of a starter as there is in baseball. If he comes here and plays like he did last year for KC we have 3 fWAR pitcher. It's not a fantastic value at 14M but right about market. If he improves on a few things (mainly his HR rate) that would go up.

[thethe]

Who cares what type of hits they are? All hits are BAD the last time I checked. Your goal as a pitcher is to get every hitter out.

What is worse...Giving up a HR or a single? They account the same way in WHIP.

[weso1]

Defense has nothing to do with strikeout-to-walk ratio. And the Angels and Royals aren't exactly bum teams when it comes to defense either.

Not having to face a DH does effect it though. Consider that and you're probably close to a 3:1 K/BB ratio.

[AUTiger7222]

Again (I believe we had this argument before) , you have to remember that Santana is a tweener pitching about as much time in a more offensive environment as this more pitching friendly environment. Santana's been an average to above average most seasons starter in the rate stats and is about as durable of a starter as there is in baseball. If he comes here and plays like he did last year for KC we have 3 fWAR pitcher. It's not a fantastic value at 14M but right about market. If he improves on a few things (mainly his HR rate) that would go up.

Why should we believe he's capable of pitching like he did last year when that year was such an outlier for him? That's my issue. There's a reason nobody gave him a big multi-year deal and it had nothing to do with that draft pick attached to him and everything to do with his history as a pitcher. There's a great chance he turns back into the pumpkin he's been in his career.

[zitothebrave]

Does it account for types of hits. If he had a whip of 1 but every hit was a homer, would that be good? What if his whip was 1.5, but all singles? Does it take into account how many strikeouts he got?

A major component of whip is hits allowed which is also largely defense related.

This, WHIP is not a terrible stat to quickly look at to see if someone's been a bit lucky stranding runners, but in 2014 we have way better stats than WHIP.

[gilesfan]

WHIP is a terrible stat? So knowing how many base runners per inning a pitcher gives up is a bad thing?

Who cares what type of hits they are? All hits are BAD the last time I checked. Your goal as a pitcher is to get every hitter out.

I cant have a logical discussion with someone that asks "who cares what types of hits he gives up?"

[thethe]

Not having to face a DH does effect it though. Consider that and you're probably close to a 3:1 K/BB ratio.

This is such a fundamental concept that I can't understand how it is being ignored by some.

[zitothebrave]

Why should we believe he's capable of pitching like he did last year when that year was such an outlier for him? That's my issue. There's a reason nobody gave him a big multi-year deal and it had nothing to do with that draft pick attached to him and everything to do with his history as a pitcher. There's a great chance he turns back into the pumpkin he's been in his career.

Last year wasn't an outlier. It wasn't even his best or second best year in fWAR.

Santana in 06 posted a 3.3 fWAR in 08 a 6.0 fWAR. Switch to rWAR and last year was his 5th best season, or the worst of his non-bad season. With 08, 10, 11, and 06 beating last year.

As long as Santana doesn't have a bad year like 12, 09, or 07 we're going to get out moneys worth of a guy who'll be very solid. If he has a bad year we wasted our money. But that can happen with any signed or traded for player (see McLouth, Nate)

[zitothebrave]

What is worse...Giving up a HR or a single? They account the same way in WHIP.

Wihch is the problem with WHIP. WHIP should be thrown out the door for wOBA. WHIP was popular in the pre-OPS era, then was pretty promptly replaced by OPS as the glance rate stat, which was then replaced by the slashes.

[Heyward]

I just wish Medlen was 100%. I bet this deal costs us the chance to sign Heyward long-term.

I still have doubts we'll sign Heyward but this is clear we have more money than people think.

This has no effect with Heyward.

[zitothebrave]

This is such a fundamental concept that I can't understand how it is being ignored by some.

That is certainly gonna play a part going from a major league hitter (OPS of .726 for the AL last season on average) to NL pitchers (OPS of .341 in the NL last season) is going to change the aspect of the game. Pitching in the NL is a different beast and some guys struggle with it because it's not the same as the AL and Santana may be that type, but some thrive in it like Cliff Lee, Lee was great in the AL too but he really thrives in the NL. Sabathia I think is the biggest waste in the AL of a pitcher after watching him play some for the Brewers. Hopefully santana takes to the NL like a fish to water and has a year like his 08 where he struck out around 9 and walked around 2 with his most normal HR rate

[Bj1133]

I like the move - not sure how you can't. I've yet to see a reason why this is a bad move.

[AUTiger7222]

I cant have a logical discussion with someone that asks "who cares what types of hits he gives up?"

So you can't have a logical discussion with someone who thinks giving up hits is a bad thing regardless of which type of hits it is? Wow!