Braves and Tommy John

[Runnin]

What's the deal??? This is from an article 2 years old and we've had more since then.

[PurpleBrave]

Look at the injuries at UGA, Falcons, and even Hawks. Being an athlete in Georgia is tough on the joints

[Millwood1Hitter]

JS made a deal with the devil to keep the division championship streak alive, and now we're paying for it.

[The Chosen One]

What's depressing is the other two teams in the top 3, have 5 World Series wins in the 21st Century.

[jpx7]

Being an athlete in Georgia is tough on the joints

But the rap musics have led me to believe it's fairly easy to have joints in Georgia.

[The Chosen One]

But the rap musics have led me to believe it's fairly easy to have joints in Georgia.

[weso1]

Maybe the reason is just simply because we have more pitchers than anyone else?

[Teheran_49]

I do know that FW likes to draft guys who have already had the procedure, or at least that's what I've read some where. I mean pitching is taxing on the arm and it's very rare to see guys go an entire career without having the surgery done.

[zitothebrave]

I could be wrong, but I think most of those Braves major league TJs have been for relievers, which isn't really bad since aside from Kimbrel, relievers are fungible. Another facor is that one of those players which puts us all alone in the lead is Kelly Johnson and a position player needing it is pretty freak.

[jdunn]

Can't help but think it has something to do with good pitchers who have long careers, i.e. Hudson, Glavine Smoltz, etc.., When was the last time, any of the teams on the lower have a starting pitcher that logged 10 years? Not to mention, organizations that do not produce quality pitchers, don't have guys who hang around MLB long enough to have TJ.

[JohnAdcox]

Starting to think Leo was right about that weird throwing program....

[zitothebrave]

Starting to think Leo was right about that weird throwing program....

Lots of guys had TJ under Leo. The list above is all time, not just in the last few years.

In fact of the 30 guys that have had TJ while on the Braves, 14 were from Leo's tenure. of the 16 guys under Roger, the major leaguers were Lerew, Viz, Beachy, EOF, Venters, KJ, Medlen, Gonzalez, Moylan, and Hudson. Gonzalez was basically damaged goods. We barely had him before getting hurt. Viz and Beachy have hip separation issues, EOF Venters and Moylan are relievers which are fungible. Medlen has timing issues. Hudson had a lot of mileage on his arm at that point, KJ was a position player. Not really much Roger could do with them. Throwing schedule or otherwise.

[Knucksie]

No stigma (if that's the right word) attached to the procedure anymore. Organizations would almost prefer that a young pitcher has already had it done. It wouldn't be a shock to see us get to the point where it starts getting performed before symptoms emerge.

[50PoundHead]

(1) Glavine, Smoltz, and Maddux were all exemplary athletes. I think Medlen is a good athlete as well, but as good as Leo may or may not have been, he was blessed with supremely athletic pitchers. And let's remember that Millwood, Smoltz, and Pete Smith all had arm troubles--not necessarily Tommy John--while under Leo's tutelage. Maddux and Glavine weren't power pitchers, so the leverage issue didn't apply as much to them as it did to the other guys.

(2) I still think in Medlen's case a lot of this is the "Curse of the Sub-6 foot RHP." Can't get the leverage needed to create enough downward movement without creating a ton of strain on the arm.

[zitothebrave]

Medlen has a few things working against him and his height certainly is a big one. What you described often happens in shorter guys. Kimbrel's gonna have arm issues at some point for similar reasons.

Generally when you're taller you put less effort into velocity.

[Knucksie]

(1) Glavine, Smoltz, and Maddux were all exemplary athletes. I think Medlen is a good athlete as well, but as good as Leo may or may not have been, he was blessed with supremely athletic pitchers. And let's remember that Millwood, Smoltz, and Pete Smith all had arm troubles--not necessarily Tommy John--while under Leo's tutelage. Maddux and Glavine weren't power pitchers, so the leverage issue didn't apply as much to them as it did to the other guys.

Smoltz was a special case, compared with Glavine and Maddux. He threw harder and the slider put greater stress on the elbow joint. Just read his book. FWIW, he disagrees with the pitch count and innings limit trend. Nobody wanted to discuss the topic at Scout in my thread on the subject. My purpose was to consider the possibility that pitch counts and innings limits were contibuting to the increase of pitchers (especially younger ones) to DL time. Arm strength isn't being built up properly by adequate thowing sessions between starts.

Maddux was an early adaptor of the 6 innings and turn it over to the pen. Starters now get paid more for doing less.

[50PoundHead]

Smoltz was a special case, compared with Glavine and Maddux. He threw harder and the slider put greater stress on the elbow joint. Just read his book. FWIW, he disagrees with the pitch count and innings limit trend. Nobody wanted to discuss the topic at Scout in my thread on the subject. My purpose was to consider the possibility that pitch counts and innings limits were contibuting to the increase of pitchers (especially younger ones) to DL time. Arm strength isn't being built up properly by adequate thowing sessions between starts.

Maddux was an early adaptor of the 6 innings and turn it over to the pen. Starters now get paid more for doing less.

Agreed.

[50PoundHead]

Medlen has a few things working against him and his height certainly is a big one. What you described often happens in shorter guys. Kimbrel's gonna have arm issues at some point for similar reasons.

Generally when you're taller you put less effort into velocity.

That and arm angle. Three or four inches of height added to three or four inches of arm length create a release point where the pitch's trajectory can be in the lower part of the strike zone with less arm strain.

[zitothebrave]

That and arm angle. Three or four inches of height added to three or four inches of arm length create a release point where the pitch's trajectory can be in the lower part of the strike zone with less arm strain.

Yup. I hinted at Medlen rushing years ago and having issues staying healthy as a starter. It was of course laughed off but I still think I'm right. It's harder to stay with strong timing as a shorter pitcher. TIming issues lead to injuries. It's also hard to do if you're really tall overhand. I think that's a big reason why RJ was so healthy and dominant while guys like Chris Johnson or Strasburg have timing issues.