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Thread: More than a Year Later, the Justin Upton Trade Looks Worse

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    More than a Year Later, the Justin Upton Trade Looks Worse

    For the Diamondbacks ...

    http://insidethezona.com/2014/05/yea...n-trade-worse/



    It looks like the Upton move was reasonable when made if you believe that Randall Delgado should have been valued as high as we’ve done so above. The fact that Delgado hasn’t really worked out as a starter is, in large part, why the trade looks much worse in hindsight. But if Julio Teheran was actually an option for Towers instead of Randall Delgado, that’s some serious egg on the face of Towers — not just because he guessed wrong, but because of why he did so. Given that Towers bailed on Trevor Bauer and Tyler Skaggs when they needed fixing, is failing to insist on Julio Teheran another example of Towers thinking that his organization couldn’t “fix” pitchers? If so, that’s a scathing indictment of his own organization and poor judgment to boot.

    As we and the D-backs start to think about a rebuilding plan, however, we’re trying to identify trade pieces, and unless the D-backs were to trade Paul Goldschmidt, there are no premium MLB assets in the cupboard with which to obtain premium minor league talent. There are plenty of trade assets, but unless the D-backs can convince another team to take quantity in return for quality, the club is likely to get back more of the same, and to rebuild as a “depth” team instead of as the Washington Nationals or Houston Astros. The Upton trade was a reasonable move that happens to not have worked out particularly well, but, more than anything else, it may have been a wasted opportunity to inject premium talent into the organization.

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    Shift Leader thethe's Avatar
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    It really was a trade you had to make and I'm obviously not Uptons biggest fan. This one move made the Braves a 84-88 win boderline wild card team to a potential perennial division winning 92+ win club.
    Warm feelings guy!

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    I <3 Ron Paul + gilesfan sturg33's Avatar
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    And also Prado's just not that good

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    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
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    If they had gotten Teheran instead of Delgado or Peraza or Gattis instead of one of the other minor league players they would be winning the trade. Details details.

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    A Chip Off the Old Rock Julio3000's Avatar
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    I loved Martin, but never saw him as a guy that a cash-strapped team would want to commit big dollars to. He's an easy player to like, and that led him to being overrated by a lot of folks.

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    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    And also Prado's just not that good
    Prado is a very good player. He's just not great, and is getting paid way more than we should pay him.
    AJ does all the other things just as well if not better than Mac - zbhargrove

    I don't think Nolan Ryan should be a poster child for mechanics - SAV

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    Prado haters unite...

    We get it already. He is gone and nobody myself included thinks the Braves didn't own that trade.

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    Director of Minor League Reports rico43's Avatar
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    Seems like from here that Gibson just didn't like Upton's perceived lack of effort on occasion and the D-Backs were forced to undervalue him to push the deal through. Gibson's skills as manager should be pretty much an open debate now with Arizona playing so far below their perceived talent level. Since the Braves and BJ are pretty much wed via shotgun, I wonder what it will take to keep Justin.

    That said, I have always maintained that the Braves needed to find a way to keep Drury. But I never saw CJ coming, and he's again returned to the player he was last year -- a multi-hit machine who'll easily end up over .300 again.

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    I'll give them Martin and their choice of Hursh or Graham for Prado IF they take Uggla as well.

    Then plug Prado in at 2B and lengthen the lineup out with him hitting behind Heyward.

    The FO that needlessly promoted him early knew what they were doing and are paid to do this. We aren't, so we can't know more than them. Correction....they used to be paid to do this..

    I also don't see the reasoning behind signing DK over CK, and I'm going to assume the Braves can only afford one of them. Like Bumgarner, DK would be an improvement in the rotation, but it seems like CK would be a bigger improvement in the BP.

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    I like Prado a ton, but I always wondered if he would hold up over the years. He started slow and finished strong last season, so this year may be following the same pattern, but he may be one of those guys who wears down in a hurry.

    Glad we kept Teheran over Delgado and glad the D-Backs wanted Delgado (if they were indeed given a choice). Drury could make the deal look slightly better for the D-Backs, but he's probably at least 2 years away. Curious to see if the D-Backs jump him up to AA mid-season. He's done better since going over the their organization.

    I think Justin Upton is a pretty good player. I'm surprised his contact skills (at least this year) are so abysmal, but he can hit and is central in importance in our current line-up.

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    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure they didn't get a choice. I have a hunch we included Drury because of that.
    AJ does all the other things just as well if not better than Mac - zbhargrove

    I don't think Nolan Ryan should be a poster child for mechanics - SAV

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    I don't care what anyone says, Prado was money here in Atl. He was a multi-hit game machine! Kind of seems like a piece of him stayed in Atlanta when they traded him

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    Delgado has been rocked and they've even moved him to the pen. the only guy that may bite us in the end is Brandon Drury, kids bat looks like it may be pretty dang good. He's absolutely crushing right now and he was the one player I hated giving up in this deal. Still, he has at least another 2 years before he sees any time at the big league level, it's still a trade I would pull the trigger on in a heart beat.

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    Towers didn't have a lot of flexibility, because of Justin's NTC. So, D-Backs fans haven't solid ground to blame Towers for not holding firm on Teheran. No guarantee that Teheran would've contined to develop and perform the same, if he'd gone to AZ anyway.

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    Towers really tried for Teheran. It wasn't posed as a choice by the Braves. The initial ask was broader than that as well. Obviously Prado was always the centerpiece from out side, but the Diamondbacks really wanted Teheran initially. They got comfortable with Delgado plus, as Zito notes.

    Towers isn't a great GM from my perspective, but just want to set the record straight that it wasn't an "either/or" kind of situation. The Braves never wanted to part with Teheran.

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    Something highly overlooked was the fact that Prado was set to be a free agent (until AZ locked him up) after the season. So we may have lost him for nothing anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYCBrave View Post
    Something highly overlooked was the fact that Prado was set to be a free agent (until AZ locked him up) after the season. So we may have lost him for nothing anyway.
    Yeah, I don't think there's any way the Braves would've retained Prado at cost. They seem to completely eschew the notion of overpaying for utility players -- and know when to sell high on them (Omar Infante).

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    I think we actually won this trade by a good bit and it's not too close. I loved Prado, still do. I have him saved on ESPN as a favorite player, but he's simply not as good as Justin, especially with CJoh being added in. With JUP being a very good hitter that is consistent with K'ing, it was awesome to get a solid contact player like Cjoh. This lineup would be a lot more solid with a guy like Prado in it at some point, but not to the expense of JUP and Cjoh. Also, Teheran is a freaking monster. I kept up with him beforehand and knew he was good, but man, he's great... easy Ace potential.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 50PoundHead View Post
    I like Prado a ton, but I always wondered if he would hold up over the years. He started slow and finished strong last season, so this year may be following the same pattern, but he may be one of those guys who wears down in a hurry.

    Glad we kept Teheran over Delgado and glad the D-Backs wanted Delgado (if they were indeed given a choice). Drury could make the deal look slightly better for the D-Backs, but he's probably at least 2 years away. Curious to see if the D-Backs jump him up to AA mid-season. He's done better since going over the their organization.

    I think Justin Upton is a pretty good player. I'm surprised his contact skills (at least this year) are so abysmal, but he can hit and is central in importance in our current line-up.

    Don't get me wrong - given that the D-Backs might as well start rebuilding, Prado/Uggla would more or less be a swap of bad contracts. That said, I'd probably be willing to include those guys I mentioned and even sweeten the deal with a Pastornicky, etc. if it would convince Towers to pull the trigger.

    Prado would be a great fit through 2016 given this team's current setup. He buys La Stella time to finish this year in the minors (if needed), then allows you to replace Pena and Schafer on next season's team by becoming a super-sub again (calling Cunningham up and giving La Stella the job obviously). Even though he doesn't "balance" the lineup right away, we all know he's still the perfect 2-hole hitter, and he'd lengthen the lineup by leaps and bounds (and even give Fredi the option of moving Heyward down if he chose) by moving the "hackers" down...

    Heyward, Prado, Freeman, J-Up, Gattis, Johnson, B. J., Simba would be worlds better than what we have right now if Fredi's not going to put Pastornicky or Pena (or Simmons even though most of us like him lower in the order) behind Heyward.
    The FO that needlessly promoted him early knew what they were doing and are paid to do this. We aren't, so we can't know more than them. Correction....they used to be paid to do this..

    I also don't see the reasoning behind signing DK over CK, and I'm going to assume the Braves can only afford one of them. Like Bumgarner, DK would be an improvement in the rotation, but it seems like CK would be a bigger improvement in the BP.

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    Fredi Gonzalez Supporter Dalyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    And also Prado's just not that good
    Truth.

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