AJC Article: "Braves hitting coach: There’s no excuse for us being this bad"

[Braves1976]

I am not, nor ever have I been, a fan of Frank Wren.

The last straw for me with Wren was the BJ signing (and I also hated the CJ extension most recently), he cannot make any good moves without ruining them with bad moves (or not making moves he should make). With all the talent this organization produces we could be really good if he just stop repeating these type of mistakes. He can't though as that is his track record going back to Baltimore. Further, I'd argue that he and Fredi are a bad combo together. One of them if not both need to go.

[50PoundHead]

The last straw for me with Wren was the BJ signing (and I also hated the CJ extension most recently), he cannot make any good moves without ruining them with bad moves (or not making moves he should make). With all the talent this organization produces we could be really good if he just stop repeating these type of mistakes. He can't though as that is his track record going back to Baltimore. Further, I'd argue that he and Fredi are a bad combo together. One of them if not both need to go.

It's kind of crazy. He's golden at the margins, but he seems to flub the centerpiece deals. I think the Justin Upton deal was a solid one, but other than that, he's been kind of snakebit.

[Braves1976]

It's kind of crazy. He's golden at the margins, but he seems to flub the centerpiece deals. I think the Justin Upton deal was a solid one, but other than that, he's been kind of snakebit.

Yea, he is can make some great deals. But it's the follow-up moves, esp. regarding free agent signings (Lowe, BJ, etc) and extensions (Uggla being the worst) that take away from the good moves via trade mostly. He had a good run with extending our young guns this off-season, but those were no brainer moves IMO that it's just a matter of having the money to get done. But his latest extension with CJ was a bad one IMO.

I also think he doesn't make some obvious moves too often at times too. It isn't just what moves a GM makes it's also what moves they could make and pass on.

[CyYoung31]

You guys are hilarious. We've had playoff-caliber teams every year of Wren's tenure except for his very first year. We've made the playoffs 3 out of the last 4 years. We've also built up the best young core in baseball, as well as the best we've had since the mid-90's during that time.

What an awful GM.

[50PoundHead]

You guys are hilarious. We've had playoff-caliber teams every year of Wren's tenure except for his very first year. We've made the playoffs 3 out of the last 4 years. We've also built up the best young core in baseball, as well as the best we've had since the mid-90's during that time.

What an awful GM.

He's got $29 million invested in crap, which he did by extending Uggla and signing B.J. Upton. He gets a bit of a walk on Upton (and he would have needed someone out there), but he overpaid by at least $2 million a season for him. The farm system is pretty much barren of anyone who will likely be a major contributor for three seasons. Part of that is the impressive graduation rate from the system, but there's really nothing but replacement guys in the upper minors right now. Gattis isn't a major league catcher (and neither is Laird anymore). Signing someone like Chris Johnson at the agreed salary is a dicey move.

And I think you'll get arguments from quite a few places about this being the best young core in baseball. It's going to have to play a lot more consistently than it has been for that to be true--at least this season.

[CyYoung31]

He's got $29 million invested in crap, which he did by extending Uggla and signing B.J. Upton. He gets a bit of a walk on Upton (and he would have needed someone out there), but he overpaid by at least $2 million a season for him. The farm system is pretty much barren of anyone who will likely be a major contributor for three seasons. Part of that is the impressive graduation rate from the system, but there's really nothing but replacement guys in the upper minors right now. Gattis isn't a major league catcher (and neither is Laird anymore). Signing someone like Chris Johnson at the agreed salary is a dicey move.

And I think you'll get arguments from quite a few places about this being the best young core in baseball. It's going to have to play a lot more consistently than it has been for that to be true--at least this season.

Every GM makes bad moves. Brian Sabean has two World Series rings in the last 4 years, yet it would take me 3 hands to cover all the bad moves he's made.

Overall, I have very little to complain about regarding Wren. At the end of the day, he's continued the success of this organization.

And I would get very few arguments about this being one of best young cores in baseball.

[CyYoung31]

I would also like to add that blaming him for Uggla is crap. We needed right-handed power in our lineup at the time and a 2nd baseman, and Uggla was one of the best in the game at that time. He was only 31 as well, so it's not like he was an old man at the time. You expected some kind of decline at some point, but not to this extent. You expected Uggla to still be a productive player, even with a decline. Unfortunately, Uggla couldn't hold up on his end of the bargain.

[Runnin]

He's got $29 million invested in crap, which he did by extending Uggla and signing B.J. Upton.

But it's crap that most everyone was happy with when it was signed. It's not Wren's or Fredi's fault Uggla and BJ caught the Francoeur virus.

Gattis isn't a major league catcher? That's a little extreme. He's still learning behind the plate but he throws out as many runners as McCann did. A couple of weeks from now when our bats are hot some of these arguments are gonna seem silly.

Everything seems worse when you're in a slump, but slumps are a part of the game. We will come out of it and once again be a good, though flawed, team.

[GovClintonTyree]

But it's crap that most everyone was happy with when it was signed. It's not Wren's or Fredi's fault Uggla and BJ caught the Francoeur virus.

Gattis isn't a major league catcher? That's a little extreme. He's still learning behind the plate but he throws out as many runners as McCann did. A couple of weeks from now when our bats are hot some of these arguments are gonna seem silly.

Everything seems worse when you're in a slump, but slumps are a part of the game. We will come out of it and once again be a good, though flawed, team.

Snakebit is correct. Somebody do one of those wOBA/WRC+ things that looks at the value of his free agent signings before and after they were Braves. Upton, Uggla, McLouth, Lowe. I would have made all those deals but Upton.

[CyYoung31]

Snakebit is correct. Somebody do one of those wOBA/WRC+ things that looks at the value of his free agent signings before and after they were Braves. Upton, Uggla, McLouth, Lowe. I would have made all those deals but Upton.

McLouth wasn't a free agent.

[CyYoung31]

I would also like to add that blaming him for Uggla is crap. We needed right-handed power in our lineup at the time and a 2nd baseman, and Uggla was one of the best in the game at that time. He was only 31 as well, so it's not like he was an old man at the time. You expected some kind of decline at some point, but not to this extent. You expected Uggla to still be a productive player, even with a decline. Unfortunately, Uggla couldn't hold up on his end of the bargain.

What a sloppily written paragraph.

[GovClintonTyree]

McLouth wasn't a free agent.

Acquisition, then. For Morton and Locke. And gorkys, I think.

Neither was Uggla. Deal for Infante and Mike Dunn.

Clearer?

[GovClintonTyree]

What a sloppily written paragraph.

Wow. You're even policing yourself. What's wrong, Cy? You seem agitated. Is it the Braves complete lack of offense on a 1968 level?

[PurpleBrave]

Wren has been fine. I don't get what he was thinking with this lineup construction though. After we lost Prado and Bourne the top of the lineup has been trash. Maybe he wrongly thought BJ could pick up the slack there?

[GovClintonTyree]

He's got $29 million invested in crap, which he did by extending Uggla and signing B.J. Upton. He gets a bit of a walk on Upton (and he would have needed someone out there), but he overpaid by at least $2 million a season for him. The farm system is pretty much barren of anyone who will likely be a major contributor for three seasons. Part of that is the impressive graduation rate from the system, but there's really nothing but replacement guys in the upper minors right now. Gattis isn't a major league catcher (and neither is Laird anymore). Signing someone like Chris Johnson at the agreed salary is a dicey move.

And I think you'll get arguments from quite a few places about this being the best young core in baseball. It's going to have to play a lot more consistently than it has been for that to be true--at least this season.

We got problems, but this ain't one of them. Agree with the rest.

Was not a fan of the Upton signing. Bourn would have been a better choice. I don't know why he felt he needed to get out in front of the market on this signing, when he waits for bargains on everything else. He could have had Bourn for $11m for four or whatever he signed at.

I really think LaStella would help this club. I don't care if the only thing he does well is get on base. That's the missing ingredient.

[GovClintonTyree]

Wren has been fine. I don't get what he was thinking with this lineup construction though. After we lost Prado and Bourne the top of the lineup has been trash. Maybe he wrongly thought BJ could pick up the slack there?

I think so. They may have thought, "what the hell, we'll make up for it with power." It doesn't work that way. You need a balance of incremental contributors and Big Bang guys.

[zitothebrave]

Wren has been fine. I don't get what he was thinking with this lineup construction though. After we lost Prado and Bourne the top of the lineup has been trash. Maybe he wrongly thought BJ could pick up the slack there?

The Problem is that ideally we'd have someone leading off so Jason hits 2 where his OB skills match his ability to drive in. But we don't have anyone who can take over the leadoff spot. Nor do we have anyone with that skillset on the way but TLS who I think I'd rather have hitting 2 as his skillset seems more Prado like and Prado was a better 2 hitter than leadoff.

[PawPawMaxwell]

Disclaimer. I have never seen TLS play at any level and I am not a GM or even an assistant GM. Neither am I a minor or major league manager who has daily access to TLS.

So what is it that makes everyone on this board think TLS is the second coming? And possibly more important, why hasnt he been given the call?

[nsacpi]

Disclaimer. I have never seen TLS play at any level and I am not a GM or even an assistant GM. Neither am I a minor or major league manager who has daily access to TLS.

So what is it that makes everyone on this board think TLS is the second coming? And possibly more important, why hasnt he been given the call?

There is a range of views about him. I don't think anyone considers him to be the messiah. I think the team wanted to give Pastornicky/Pena a month or so in the job after benching Uggla to see if they could possibly be the solution. We are about half-way through that experiment. La Stella should be next if that doesn't work out. There is a sequencing at work here that makes sense given that La Stella is not currently on the 40-man roster and has not been hitting as well in AAA as he did at lower levels in the minors.

[zitothebrave]

Disclaimer. I have never seen TLS play at any level and I am not a GM or even an assistant GM. Neither am I a minor or major league manager who has daily access to TLS.

So what is it that makes everyone on this board think TLS is the second coming? And possibly more important, why hasnt he been given the call?

He's stayed down because of work on defense. He needs plenty of work there. But again, it's not like we have some kind of defensive wizard out there. We have Struggla and some slightly above average guys who don't hit well.

I'm not saying TLS is the second coming. I just think he's the best option that we have.

There's likely 2 reasons I think he hasn't been called up yet. First Braves want him to work on his defense while they sort out their options already in the bigs. Second they need to clear up spots on the 40 man. We're currently at 39 man, so the Braves could bring him up, then what of when Jonny V comes back. I have a hunch. Dan Uggla will likely be gone in the not too distant future and when that happens the Braves will bring up La Stella.