Bourn vs Bossman

[zitothebrave]

Had this discussion with a few people who thought that Bossman would be better over 5 years than Bourn way back when (thethe was one)

About 30% of the way through the contract deal this is how they stack up.

Bossman, 812 PA 72 R 144 hits, 25 2B 5 3B 16 HR 51 RBIs 27 stolen bases 8 caught stealings, .199/.272/.314 -1.6 rWAR 0.0 fWAR

Bourn, 884 PA 112 R 214 hits, 30 2B 13 3B 9 HR 71 RBIs 30 SB 15 CS .264/.316/.367 2.2 rWAR 2.4 fWAR

Bossman has a long way to go for some people to beat me in that bet. Of course hindsight is 20/20 and some people regret the pick with current facts. But I'm still keeping tabs as I'd expect thethe to do.

[NinersSBChamps]

I was in full agreement that Bourn would be better as well. Bourn hasn't been great by any stretch, but BJ has been awful.

[bravesnumberone]

Hated losing Bourn. But there was no way to guess that BJ would reach this level of suckage. If you wanted Bourn over some of the BJ production had earlier in his career, fair enough. Let's also keep in mind Bourn would have signed for a very comparable deal that BJ did, not what he got with the Indians. Hindsight, I'd rather have Bourn still at the top of the order.

[ChapelHillMatt]

But you don't understand.......BJ helped get us Justin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gilesfan]

I remember people calling BJ a potential MVP candidate last year. BUT LOOK AT HIS TALENT!

[Nerfherders]

Not defending BJ, but Bourn hasn't really been all that great either. .316 OBP and over 50 games missed over the last 2 years. His steals are also way down - 30 over his last 196 games, when his 162 game average is 46. I suspect the Indians were looking for more when they signed him.

[Deester11]

If someone would have told me that BJ would be this terrible, I would have argued. I can admit that. Also, at the time, Bourn wanted to be paid like he was the best CF in baseball.

To wit: "word on the streets is that Bourn is looking for a huge payday, possibly as much as $100 million. He hired high-powered agent Scott Boras before the 2011 season to aid in that quest."

It really doesn't matter anymore to me. We have BJ, and for that I am......well, we have him.

[GovClintonTyree]

The real lesson here is that both have sucked. Bourn has normal sucked, BJ has epicsucked. Always cheaper to grow your own (or trade for one on the way up). I'm really kind of down on free agent spending. I'm sure one of you sabres has looked at what percentage of deals the club actually gets their money's worth. I'd be interested.

[Carp]

I wanted Upton cause I thought he would be cheaper to sign. Had I known Bourn would get the deal he did, I would have loved to have kept Bourn

[zitothebrave]

I wanted Upton cause I thought he would be cheaper to sign. Had I known Bourn would get the deal he did, I would have loved to have kept Bourn

It's the tale of Frank Wren's free agency. His first year as GM when he got Lowe and had to overpay because the market went dry he looked a fool. 2 offseasons ago he went and got his man and the market was overflowing that Bourn signed below contract. Basically Wren tried to play it smart twice and got burned twice. Such is the nature of Free agency. Sometimes you win big, usually you lose big.

Actually I was in the trade for SPan camp orginally. But I fully thought Bourn would be better than Upton. Both have underwhelmed but Bourn has sucked much much less. ANd I think Bourn's WAR would be better in Atlanta with Jason next to him as his defensive numbers havne't been great in Cleveland and Jason clearly has an effect on CFs next to him.

[Carp]

Actually, yeah I wanted Span/Victorino above either either Bourn or Upton.

[yeezus]

I remember people calling BJ a potential MVP candidate last year. BUT LOOK AT HIS TALENT!

I don't think anyone said he would be in the running for the MVP. Just that he displayed that kind of talent in the past. Don't let that stop a good giles straw man though.

[Tapate50]

Actually, yeah I wanted Span/Victorino above either either Bourn or Upton.

I was a big Victorino guy. I wasn't positive he could produce outside of Philly, but he was going to get less money over less years. I always liked him. Injury bug has gotten hold of him though.

[gilesfan]

I wanted Span or Bourn. Everyone seemed to focus on what BJ did 5 years ago and not how TB fans wanted him out bc of his lackadaisical play and lack of growth (actually decline) as a hitter.

[BRule]

BUT GUYS! THEY ARE BROTHERS!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND THEY WILL BE PLAYING TOGETHER!!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY WILL BE SO HAPPY AND THEY WILL PLAY THAT MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Millwood1Hitter]

It's the tale of Frank Wren's free agency. His first year as GM when he got Lowe and had to overpay because the market went dry he looked a fool. 2 offseasons ago he went and got his man and the market was overflowing that Bourn signed below contract. Basically Wren tried to play it smart twice and got burned twice. Such is the nature of Free agency. Sometimes you win big, usually you lose big.

Actually I was in the trade for SPan camp orginally. But I fully thought Bourn would be better than Upton. Both have underwhelmed but Bourn has sucked much much less. ANd I think Bourn's WAR would be better in Atlanta with Jason next to him as his defensive numbers havne't been great in Cleveland and Jason clearly has an effect on CFs next to him.

And there lies the problem when you are a mid market team like the Braves who on occassion have funds available to be able to sign a FA to fill a potential positional void on a young up and coming team. Wren and the FO are stuck in a tough position, because they are stuck in a spot where they are unable to sign the top tier free agents on the market and put in a position where if they want to attract a mid-tier free agent they will have to go above and beyond what other teams are willing and able to do. So basically they are stuck bidding on mid tier free agents who are still good enough to garner interest from the big market clubs who have more funds available and may be willing to overpay to fill a positional need.

It happened in 2008-2009. We needed to rebuild the rotation, and badly. Peavy and Burnett were Wren's targets. Wren was not willing to overpay a crazy Kevin Towers and trade Hansen for Peavy, which at the time was smart. We had funds available but in the end Burnett was Wren's guy. Unfortunately for us, the Yankees were also interested and swooped in and gave him a ridiculous contract, even though our offer initially was competitively in the market. After all of that, Lowe was about the only viable option left on the market, and despite all of that, we we're still up against the Mets and had to outbid them to persuade Lowe to come here, therefore adding an additional year.

Something similiar happened a couple of years ago. We finally got our CF and leadoff hitter that we were looking for some time in Bourne. He had his faults and was not a perfect player and was getting at an age where a regression through his next contract was to be expected, and not necessarily worth what he was asking for. To compound the problem, Boras was his agent and was willing to hold out for best deal possible and unwilling to advance negotiations early in the process. This put Wren in a bad position, as we needed a CF, and needed to fill the position to be able to move forward on potential other negotiations to strengthen the club. Wren did not want to go into Christmas break not knowing who was going to man CF and how many dollars were not allocated to each position. Early in the process, Wren and company looked at all options, and fell in love with BJ's potential upside. Not only that, BJ showed a mutual interest in the Braves. But the Braves were also in a position where they could have been outbid by in division rivals Washington and Philadelphia, who also loved BJ's potential.

Wren moved forward and overpaid at the time thinking we got the best available CF. Washington moved forward and acquired Span, Philly got Revere. The Giants overpaid for Pagan, and the Red Sox got Victorino shortly afterward. Bourne was left without options and signed what would have been a team friendly contract for us, with the Indians late in the signing period.

I wanted to keep Bourne but not overpay, then after that I thought that Span would be a viable stopgap option. If that didn't materialize Fowler would have been nice, but the Rox wanted a king's ransom. I didn't like Pagan, and wasn't sold on Victorino staying healthy and productive outside of Philly through the entirety of his contract. I didn't like the BJ contract, but understood why he did what he did, especially with the potential of being able to lure his younger brother here. I never imagined he would be this bad, though.

And so this is the hand we have been dealt. We can't be big players for the likes of Holliday or Bay which were needs at the time, spurned by other teams and mid tier free agents, and scratching the heap pile and end up late in the period trying to sign the likes of Garrett Anderson or Griffey Jr to fill a need.

[UNCBlue012]

I wanted Span or Bourn. Everyone seemed to focus on what BJ did 5 years ago and not how TB fans wanted him out bc of his lackadaisical play and lack of growth (actually decline) as a hitter.

I was fully focused on Bourn for most of the time. It moved to Span after a bit, but I was on the same wagon.