Braves Trade Heyward, Walden to Cardinals for Miller and Tyrell Jenkins

[Diesel]

Heyward isn't a power hitter. His swing is not conducive to homeruns. That won't change. It's not about his size, power, approach, or willingness to learn.....biomechanically, he just doesn't do things the way a power hitter does. Still a quality player. But not the kind of producer he will get paid to be.

[emk418]

Bottom line is unless Heyward breaks out into a star offensively THIS year the trade is a win for us. Because he was gone regardless in 2016.

[zbhargrove]

Heyward, all kidding aside, is the exact type of player capable of having a 40/40 season in his prime.

Not with his career trends

[Dalyn]

Okay.

[sturg33]

Not happy about losing Heyward. At least we got some upside. But I'm more interested in getting every day players back. I don't like this deal.

But why the **** is Kimbrel safe? He's the easiest guy to move we have, and it won't really impact us in the short term (since we're punting)

[gilesfan]

How bout realize he's not even 24 and his rookie yr as fantastic. He had a sophomore slump but was still an effective pitcher.

Well, he actually is 24.

His rookie year was solid, but nothing special. He is a decent young, middle of the rotation starter...which is fine. But, he was acquired for Jason Heyward.......and Jordan Walden.

Claiming that starting staff is the best in baseball is hilarious. You think that staff puts up an ERA around the 3 mark?

[zbhargrove]

Mostly defense? Seriously? I think people forget Heyward is only 25 and has spent his MLB career on a team with no hitting coach.

You are so overrating the role of a hitting coach.

[Millwood1Hitter]

Not happy about losing Heyward. At least we got some upside. But I'm more interested in getting every day players back. I don't like this deal.

But why the **** is Kimbrel safe? He's the easiest guy to move we have, and it won't really impact us in the short term (since we're punting)

Now we know why Fredi and Co. didn't use Kimbrell for multiple innings last year against the Dodgers in an elimination game, as they truely were thinking about the FUTURE.

Also you have to wonder what is going through the heads of the likes of Freeman, Kimbrel, Simmons, etc who signed long-term extensions with so much turmoil and proven that the next 2 years probably are going to mean very little. I hope Hart at least had the nerve to sit down with them and explain what they were thinking and the potential process of putting together a "championship caliber team" in 2017.

[bravesnumberone]

I think Hart wasn't lying about not being the actual GM.

The actual GM is William Shanks.

[Tapate50]

Jenkins is a ways away, but appears to be healthy again, having pitched in the Arizona Fall League.

Here's a piece on him: http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2014/11/...tyrell-jenkins

Great link 50, thanks.

Thats some real positive data right there.

[Dalyn]

You are so overrating the role of a hitting coach.

Okay.

[Russ2dollas]

Keith Law likes it for both teams. Says Jenkins leapfrogs Sims to be our clear number 1 pitching prospect. Calls miller a mid rotation guy floor with a number 2 ceiling. Thought that his close to the season was a result of a change in pitch selection so maybe sustainable vs a fluke.

Maybe I'd feel better if I thought CB looked better behind the plate or had any chance of hitting. Maybe if I hadn't seen how awful Gattis is in LF and noticed how his offensive numbers aren't great compared to other LFs. Maybe if I thought FF was going to be a 30 plus HR guy. Or that Simmons was going to be an avg OBP guy. Maybe if CJ wasn't CJ and BJ wasn't BJ.

Just feel like we're going to see Terdo starting in a corner next year.

[NYCBrave]

Heyward was gone regardless, I think some people are in denial about that. Yes it hurts, but that's the reality for us.

[Tapate50]

Now we know why Fredi and Co. didn't use Kimbrell for multiple innings last year against the Dodgers in an elimination game, as they truely were thinking about the FUTURE.

Also you have to wonder what is going through the heads of the likes of Freeman, Kimbrel, Simmons, etc who signed long-term extensions with so much turmoil and proven that the next 2 years probably are going to mean very little. I hope Hart at least had the nerve to sit down with them and explain what they were thinking and the potential process of putting together a "championship caliber team" in 2017.

They got jeff loria'd but...

It worked for the Marlins. TWICE!

Fwiw, i think our FO has seen the run the Giants are on, and thinks that is a very good model especially with having to keep payroll in line.

[clvclv]

Some positives to take away, Miller finished this yr on a roll with a 2.95 ERA over his last 12 starts. May be something clicked for him.

Heard from a big Cards fan earlier. He thought the roll Miller was on at the end of the season was enough for them to keep him. He says he and quite a few of his buddies who know the Cards' system aren't all that jazzed about the deal.

Neither side "wins" HUGE unless both Miller and Jenkins reach their ceilings or Jason reaches his in 2015 AND the Cardinals are willing to pony up around $180 million plus. While neither is likely, this should be interesting.

So funny to hear all these people around here in favor of a bit of a firesale in an effort to reshape and be ready for the new park, then *itch and whine when it starts.

[jpx7]

This coming from the guy who thinks Uggla should still be in the starting line-up.

I'll be honest: I've been thinking a lot over the past year or so about dropping the Braves (and thus baseball) from the list of things I spend time worrying myself with as a spectator.

The first straw, for me, was the racist, suburban switch from a perfectly good stadium to a sparkly new one in an adjoining county. Sure, it may very well be good business, for them, but it left a nasty taste in my metaphorical mouth. But, I rationalized to myself, at least it will be good for the team on the field—and that's what I care about with respect to the Braves.

Now that same sparkly new stadium is being used as justification for another rebuild, right around the moment it felt like the last, post-Cox rebuilding just got some legs under it. And, honestly, I personally felt better about the direction of the team circa two months ago, at the end of the 2014 regular season than I do now—despite both that roster's and that management's warts—considering what I've seen, heard, and read from this new (but really pretty old) crew managing the latest round of rebuilding we're watching commence.

To top it off, from the perspective of my personal spectation: the first real shoe to drop is a trade of my favorite player—a kid I was elated to see the Braves draft, who I followed up the system, and who I really enjoyed watching—to the major-league team I despise most, and for a return whose quality leaves me feeling further skeptical about the evaluative capacities of the "new" regime.

There's more to come, I'm sure—and for the Braves sake, I hope the return on the younger Upton, Gattis, Kimbrel (if they're wise enough to trade him while they're at it), and whoever else is a lot better than what the team received for Heyward. Nonetheless, it's certainly been enough to shake my desire to follow this (and thus any) club.

But I like baseball, and I like discussing baseball, so I'm not sure that just walking away is the best route, for me. At the moment, I'm seriously considering an alternative bargain: actively rooting against this team—at least for a few years.

[emk418]

So people are down on Miller after one fantastic rookie year and a sophmore slump, but Heyward is worth more than him based on mostly defense?

I think we have misconstrued the value of our own players\prospects. Every trade we have made is what the market would bear.

I'll wait and see what the rest of the offseason bears before I judge this one, as Heywards production is certainly repeatable in other ways.

And his "sophomore slump" he was still effective. He's a big time young SP.

[Russ2dollas]

I don't mind trading everybody. But it depends on the return.

Heard from a big Cards fan earlier. He thought the roll Miller was on at the end of the season was enough for them to keep him. He says he and quite a few of his buddies who know the Cards' system aren't all that jazzed about the deal.

Neither side "wins" HUGE unless both Miller and Jenkins reach their ceilings or Jason reaches his in 2015 AND the Cardinals are willing to pony up around $180 million plus. While neither is likely, this should be interesting.

So funny to hear all these people around here in favor of a bit of a firesale in an effort to reshape and be ready for the new park, then *itch and whine when it starts.

[Carp]

I think people are also overstating the actual value Heyward has. Despite what fWAR says, it's pretty clear that offense is simply valued more importantly. And Heyward is coming off a pretty unimpressive season offensively. Now you might suggest we shouldn't have traded him at his lowest point, and that would be a fair point, but the other option was to watch him walk in 12 months and get picks. This move still improves our roration for the short term and long term. It only hurts our offense in the short term, as Heyward would be gone next yr anyways.

Looking at what we got in return, it's actually pretty good value, though obviously not a steal for us. Miller is a good pitcher at the major league level. Think about what sort of package it would take for us to trade Minor, and multiply that by 10. Miller has the potential to be a top end starter and has 4 yrs of control left.

[TomahawkCult]

I would have rather shipped JUp and tried to keep Heyward, but hey ho. I don't like Heyward no longer being a Brave, but I can understand why. My 9 year old son, on the other hand, is gonna be well pissed off.