Braves Trade Heyward, Walden to Cardinals for Miller and Tyrell Jenkins

[blueagleace1]

Just to give my two cents (for what it's worth) on the trade:

1. First and foremost, I want to thank Jason Heyward from the bottom of my heart for the last five seasons. In Jason, we knew that everyday when his name was penciled in RF (and the few times in CF) he was going to give us 110% of his effort on both sides of the ball and on the base paths -where he was an absolute joy to watch go 1st to 3rd on a single or score from 1st on a ball in the gap- and we knew that as fans we could count on him signing autographs before every game. He was the driving force behind many cheers -his opening day home run, his diving catch in CF against the Mets in the bottom of the 9th, him robbing Yadier Molina of a home run in the wild card game, and the stories of him hitting home runs in spring training that caused the Braves to put up the "Heyward Tents" to name a few- and some tears -hearing that he had undergone an emergency appendectomy, or when he torn the ligament in his thumb, or most frighteningly when he was hit in the jaw by a Jon Neise fastball-. With that being said, I hope J-Hey goes on to have a Hall of Fame career.

2. It had became apparent that we weren't going to be able to extend #22 by paying him the $20-25 million annually he deserved, and justifiably so. Knowing this, it came down to two things: 1.) Keep him this season and hope that we have a roster capable of winning it all (we don't have the money or prospects to make a major signing/trade) and slap a qualifying offer on him after the season, netting us a draft pick. OR 2.) Trade him to a team that has the necessary prospects or controllable big league talent that will help us compete in the future.

As much as it hurts to lose homegrown players as special as J-Hey, I believe we did the right thing. We were never going to get a huge package of players that so many want because of Heyward's impending free agency. What we did get was a front-of-the-rotation arm in Shelby Miller, who at worst is a solid #3, and a high risk/high reward prospect in Tyrell Jenkins.

In Shelby Miller, we are getting a possible future ace or #2 starter, or at worst a very good #3 starter who is under team control thru 2018 (he'll be a free agent in 2019). Some are looking at his stats from this past season and screaming a John Hart but failed to remember in 2013 a season in which he finished 3rd in RoY voting behind Jose Fernandez and Yasiel Puig by posting a 3.06 ERA in 171.1 inning with 169 strikeouts. Prior to the 2012 season, Miller was rated as the #5 prospect in ALL of baseball and the 2nd best right-handed pitcher right behind Julio Teheran (#4 overall).

With the high risk/high reward in Tyrell Jenkins, we are possibly getting another top-of-the-rotation arm down the road. When Jenkins was drafted 50th overall in 2010, he was signed away from playing QB at Baylor and was considered the 2nd best prep arm (behind Jameson Taillion) available in the draft but also the one with the most upside. It was later written that Jenkins would have most likely gone in the Top 10 if teams had thought they could sign him away from playing football at Baylor. It's unfair to pass judgement on Jenkins at this point because prior to this past season he has spent the majority of 2012 and 2013 nursing a sore shoulder. This past season -Jenkins first fully healthy season- he posted 3.28 ERA in 74 innings (13 starts) and 41 Ks. With the improvement of health in his shoulder, he was sent to the Arizona Fall League this year where he posted a team-best (for starters) 2.22 ERA in 24.1 innings (6 starts) with 18 Ks. During the fall league his fastball (which has a ton of sink) has been clocked at 93-95 MPH and touched 97 MPH.

* This trade also could mean that we keep Upton and try to compete next year. The one seemingly area of concern going into the offseason was how we replace 400 innings in our rotation and with the acquisition of Miller and the approx. $10 million we saved in salary, we could sign a veteran SP to a 1 year deal to eat some innings. With that being said, I still highly believe he too is traded for another top of the rotation arm like Taijuan Walker.

We are slowly putting together a rotation that in 2017 will look (at the least) like this:

1. Julio Teheran
2. Alex Wood
3. Shelby Miller
4. Mike Minor
5. Lucas Sims / Jason Hursh / Tyrell Jenkins / or whomever Upton is traded for (Taijuan Walker is a possibility)

*That starting five as it stands has the potential to be one of the best in all of baseball when we move into SunTrust Park in 2017.

With the money saved this year to go along with the expiring contract for Dan Uggla and the increase in revenue, there is the possibility that we could sign a big time FA starter next offseason -if someone who profiles as a top of the rotation/potential ace isn't acquired in a Justin Upton trade- when the likes of David Price, Johnny Cueto, Jordan Zimmerman, Jeff Samardzija, Doug Fister, Hisashi Iwakuma, and Mat Latos to name a few become free agents. So could you imagine a rotation that looks like this:

1. Jordan Zimmerman
2. Julio Teheran
3. Alex Wood
4. Shelby Miller
5. Mike Minor

As much as it's going to hurt NOT to see Jason Heyward play RF for us next season, we are slowly building a rotation and a core of young guys that can compete year in and year out for many years to come. Again I hope J-Hey has a tremendous year next year, and for many years after that. We are certainly going to miss him in Braves Country... that is not up for debate.




Let's not crucify John Hart just yet....

[COGPK]

Sure wish we had traded McCann a year before he left.

[thethe]

Sure wish we had traded McCann a year before he left.

Yup, this is what smart organizations do when they realize they can't keep their players.

[thethe]

Heyward said the 10 minute long-term extension discussion was in November or December of 2012 and the subject was never again revisited. The two year arbitration buyout was agreed during 2014 ST. Does that timeline make any sense? Especially when Hart seems to indicate about the 2014 ST negotiations (in annoyingly vague terms I guess) that the team wouldn't be able to come to a long-term agreement. I doubt that conclusion was reached solely upon the radio silence Heyward seems to indicate.

But that doesn't necessarily mean that Heyward's lying. All of the quotes he's given are that the team didn't come to him or the team never sat down with him and his agent. None of them say that there was no contact with only his agent gauging interest between 2012 and 2014. If you take his words literally, he was not an immediate party to any long-term contract discussions after 2012. Nothing is said one way or another about feelers being sent to his agent, which ramadon has claimed occurred, and which reason dictates would have had to occur. Depending on how informal and/or unproductive those discussions were, Heyward may not have even been made aware of them.

Even if Heyward were aware of agent contact, as long as the Braves didn't set up a meeting with he and his agent (and I'm sure they didn't, likely because they weren't close on a deal and it would have been pointless), his words, taken literally, are consistent. It also isn't inconsistent for Jason to have wanted a meeting, to have been unwilling to settle for whatever the Braves would have offered in said meeting, and to feel disrespected by the fact that no meetings occurred even though they would have led to nothing.

Another thing. "I wanted to stay..." Ellipsis. Finish the sentence. I wanted to stay... for the right terms. Doesn't say anything about a hometown discount, or about needing to have the highest bid. It has no meaningful context. But it sounds nice.

Precisely. Braves did this because they read the tea leaves and it was clear Heyward was not going to take any less than market value.

[yeezus]

We're betting on Shelby Miller instead of Jason Heyward.
Yippeeeee.

[yeezus]

Also for what it's worth, I've read quite a few things saying Shelby is a dickhead.

[clvclv]

Others aren't using racist analogies to try and make a point.

Afraid you've confused me with someone else. I've never used a racist analogy to try and make a point. FWIW, I did notice those posts and didn't appreciate them either.

[thethe]

We're betting on Shelby Miller instead of Jason Heyward.
Yippeeeee.

No, we are betting on 4 yeras of Miller and 6 years of Jenkins as opposed to 1 year of Heyward and 2 years of Walden

Seems pretty clear this was the right move.

[yeezus]

No, we are betting on 4 yeras of Miller and 6 years of Jenkins as opposed to 1 year of Heyward and 2 years of Walden

Seems pretty clear this was the right move.

No, it doesn't.

[yeezus]

Bets need to be made on players no matter what. Heyward is as good a bet as a lot of guys. We dropped the ball.

[thethe]

Bets need to be made on players no matter what. Heyward is as good a bet as a lot of guys. We dropped the ball.

You believe we dropped the ball. I also love Heywards long term potential but I'm not going to say the Braves did something wrong here. When Heyward signs for 25M then the question you need to ask yourself is if the Braves can afford to have that much money to 1 player when his hitting skills have yet to be refined.

[yeezus]

That money has to go somewhere and the production has to come from somewhere. I'd love to know what their plan is. But I doubt their plan, whatever it is, is as good a bet as Heyward.

[yeezus]

You believe we dropped the ball. I also love Heywards long term potential but I'm not going to say the Braves did something wrong here. When Heyward signs for 25M then the question you need to ask yourself is if the Braves can afford to have that much money to 1 player when his hitting skills have yet to be refined.

Yup. Every player is a risk. Pretty much everyone. We can bet on two guys with 1/2 the talent as Jason for the same total price. And it could be a disaster. Giving Jason $22 mil would not have been a disaster even if he stays the same as 2014.

[yeezus]

What options do we have moving forward? Any one care to get into that? I don't really see any. Apparently no money, and no one in the minors.

[jsebe10]

Bets need to be made on players no matter what. Heyward is as good a bet as a lot of guys. We dropped the ball.

How did they drop the ball?

[Tapate50]

No, it doesn't.

Just because you don't recognize that Miller and Jenkins have great value doesn't mean that baseball people don't. They do, they are controllable and have high ceilings.

We did well to get that much from one year of Jason honestly.

It is very apparent that baseballs view of Heywards value is very different from what this board thinks it is.

[NYCBrave]

Some people need to simmer down. I realize many here don't like the deal. I'm disappointed to see Heyward gone to the Cardinals too. But, that's the business of baseball guys. Just get yourselves ready, because as I said earlier, this won't be the last deal. I can see at least another one or two before things are all said and done. Also, there is no reason to automatically punt the 2015 season. For the main reason as to the fact we don't know what the team will look like. Let's see what team we have before we throw our arms up in the air and give up. It's a long time until February.

I know I'm going to get some smart aleck remarks, but oh well. I haven't contributed much in this thread because a great number of individuals can't have a debate without letting their anger take over their senses. It's one thing to be disappointed, but it's another to use that anger to act like a jerk. I know it's not everyone, but there is enough who rather jump all over people who think they are wrong that makes a civil debate almost impossible.

People are emotional right now, I totally get it. For many, their favorite player was traded away and it doesn't make sense. The comments in the media by Jason and Hart don't make it easier to swallow.

I still remember how I felt when Justice and Grissom were traded away, that one sure hurt.

[sc1767]

Even though I really do not like it I can understand why Heyward is not here, and there is pitching back in the deal which personally I am almost always in favor of. But St Louis has taken advantage of the Braves before, and really are the enemy. That doesn't taste good. And Walden was a concession which I don't feel was necessary. Time will tell but I think we overpaid, sold too cheaply, whichever way you want to view it. JS was not great towards the end of his GM tenure, IMO, this feels like he has his hands all over it.

[GovClintonTyree]

How can so many people be upset with this deal? Miller was awesome his rookie year in '13, hit a rough patch as a sophomore, then got fixed and finished very strong over his last six starts. Heyward hit 11 HR and slugged.384 over a full season, his fifth. He's helpless as a kitten against lefties and he's a free agent in a year. Some idiots offer him $200m, and the Yanks will, and Hart is left holding his johnson.

Stupid trade? I think not. Hurts. A lot.

[GovClintonTyree]

Even though I really do not like it I can understand why Heyward is not here, and there is pitching back in the deal which personally I am almost always in favor of. But St Louis has taken advantage of the Braves before, and really are the enemy. That doesn't taste good. And Walden was a concession which I don't feel was necessary. Time will tell but I think we overpaid, sold too cheaply, whichever way you want to view it. JS was not great towards the end of his GM tenure, IMO, this feels like he has his hands all over it.

Walden is two DL stints a year until his shoulder blows out from that delivery. That's a lot of strain. Yes, he's awesome, but I think he'll be hurt until he retires.