I think it is more he took less years, though he did get an option for second with S.F. too. While other teams were offering two years. And that isn't even in the same ballpark as what Markakis got, esp. considering the additional years.Originally Posted by Tapate50
Last edited by Braves1976; 01-16-2015 at 06:15 PM.
I could see that happening too. Wasn't the Braves and Heyward close in money before hand too?
Yeah, but they aren't in the same league talent wise. Also, Baltimore was offering just as much as we did less a mill or two.
Ivermectin Man
Definitely one of the lowest deltas I've seen this season. If those were truly the numbers that both sides negotiated with at noon today, it's disappointing they didn't close the gap. I'd guess that it's pretty common though for one or both sides to hedge their supposed "final offer" when they file. Probably an even-money chance they end up striking a 2-year deal before the hearing.
The main issue a lot of us have with Markakis contract is the length of years, not the AAV. Which along with the health concerns was the same concern Baltimore had too.
Do you or Hawk recall off hand how close the Braves and Heyward's camp were before striking the two year deal? I was thinking it was pretty close too but I don't have that information handy to say for sure.
Found it at MLBTR: "The 24-year-old former All-Star filed for a $5.5MM salary, while the Braves countered at $5.2MM." So yep my memory ain't as bad as my trust in it, lol.
Last edited by Braves1976; 01-16-2015 at 06:32 PM.
Hawk (01-16-2015)
It's probably not just a coincidence that the teams are so close, although dak makes a good point about whether or not the reported offers are truly accurate.
I recall reading several years ago (and can't find any reference to it now, of course) that the overall cost of an individual arbitration hearing was somewhere in the neighborhood of $100-200K once you factor in various fees and time. I don't know how accurate that number actually is, though.
I see one of two things happening, neither of which involves an actual arbitration hearing.
1) The Braves agree to a 2-3 year deal with Minor, whom they believe can rebound and become a solid #2-#3 starter and be a part of the team when they open SunTrust Park.
2) The Braves will trade Minor for an outfield bat if they cannot come to a multi-year deal. If he is serious about forcing an arbitration hearing, when he knows the Braves' habit of not negotiating after the filing period, then he might as well be moved. In my opinion, the Braves' brass won't tolerate being taken to an arbitration hearing over $500,000.
I honestly don't know which option I prefer, to tell the truth. If Minor had posted a strong 2014 season and we could get a legitimate outfield threat, then I would be okay with moving him. But then again, if he turns it around he could help anchor this very young rotation.
I don't think Aoki and Markakis are nearly as far apart talent-wise as you seem to believe they are.
"For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."
Braves1976 (01-17-2015), Dalyn (01-17-2015)
Yeah they are essentially clones imo. Both have a decent average, low k rate, good walk rate, little power, and meh defenders. One guy paid 4/44 and one got paid 5 million. One is a massive overpay while the other is the bargain of the year for offense.
To be fair: it appears there was no way the Braves could have snagged Aoki at that price. Teams that have checked out on the next season—and are a couple seasons away from checking out on their home-city—pretty much have to overpay.
"For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."
Oh I don't disagree with that. It still looks like crap though that the Giants are getting the same player for less than half the cost.
Markakis has quite a bit more power than Aoki... let's not fool ourselves here... 14 to 1 homer difference last year. And Aoki's speed has been declining pretty quickly... basically he's just a slap hitter that relies on quite a bit of infield hits. Markakis has year in and year out had quite a bit higher OPS than Aoki with 2013 being the only exception. Career .789 OPS compared to a career .729... they are not the same player. I'd rather see Markakis than a Rafael Belliard.
He may not be worth that much more than Aoki (contract wise), but he is obviously and most certainly a better player. All you have to do is look at the stats.
Last edited by zbhargrove; 01-17-2015 at 07:40 AM.
Markakis doesn't have much power. He has posted 5 seasons with an iso over .150 and none over .200 (the standard for good power) and 4 of those 5 seasons were his first 4 seasons in baseball. last 4 years have seen Markakis's iso at .122 .174 .085 and .111 throwing out the very high and very low you can basically set Markakis in the .110-.120 range Aoki is lower than that, he has come in .144 .084 .075 so you'd figure him somewhere around .080. Of course there's much less data to go off him. And one thing I touched on in another thread is Baltimore's OF layout, it has a severe cut in their right field porch creating a heck of a power alley. Who knows how that positively or negatively affected Markakis, also need to factor in he's losing his Fenway and Yankee stadium games too. He probably played close to 100 games in parks that favor lefties with power.
Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg
Where did I ever say he had a lot of power? I said he has a lot more than Aoki, which is blatantly obvious and not saying much.
A guy I'd take a look at is Aaron Hicks. Hasn't done it at the big league level and he could be on his way out in Minnesota if he doesn't win the starting CF job. Ks too much, but walks a lot. Good defense. Just hasn't hit yet, but he's only 25 and had good minor league numbers. Curious to see what the Twins do with him.
zito--In his five seasons, Jason Heyward has only had one season with an isoSLG over .200. I'm not disputing your assessment of Markakis' power. That's not his game. But I think your threshold of .200 for a display of true power is a little high.
Last edited by 50PoundHead; 01-17-2015 at 09:47 AM.
jpx7 (01-17-2015)
Opinions vary, to be sure.
Ivermectin Man
They are worlds apart on at least one thing- and that is the intangibles. Look I know most of us (I'm including myself since I've long been labeled a "stathead" although I have been in the generally positive camp this offseason) don't believe in clubhouse chemistry and the like... However the Braves organization does and placed a value in acquiring someone who could be a leader and an example to our really young core of players (and those coming up)-- and I don't think anyone here could argue that Markakis doesn't fit that bill. For all his gifts, I don't see Aoki channeling Chipper Jones or Tim Hudson through Kosuke Inaji.
I feel like 50 is the most fair an balanced poster on the forum.
I don't disagree with that. Braves have always been big on that. It's what led them to believe Francoeur was the man despite his actual talent level. I'm of the belief that talent level is what matters. If you win the your clubhouse will be ok. When the Braves are losing this summer (and I beleive they will be losing big) we will see how much of Nicks makeup matters in the clubhouse.
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