Braves donate Justin Upton to Padres for prospects

[nsacpi]

Minor was a Super 2 last year, which means he is under team control for 2015, 2016 and 2017. Not that whether a player is under team control for 2017 should be the sole determining factor regarding whether we should trade him or not.

[COGPK]

I like the idea of packaging Justin, Minor, and BJ together. Saves so much money between now and 2017 that Hart could do just about anything.

It's crazy, but it's almost worth giving those 3 up for a bag of balls and you would be ahead of the game. You lose Minor but look at the money you have to sign some guys. So, I would be up for most any deal involving those 3.

[Tapate50]

It's crazy, but it's almost worth giving those 3 up for a bag of balls and you would be ahead of the game. You lose Minor but look at the money you have to sign some guys. So, I would be up for most any deal involving those 3.

It is crazy, but I agree. The flexibility is key, as we could snag Lester or even Sherzer and still not be adding payroll.

[thewupk]

It is crazy, but I agree. The flexibility is key, as we could snag Lester or even Sherzer and still not be adding payroll.

That would be shedding one bad contract for another.

[Tapate50]

That would be shedding one bad contract for another.

I guess that would depend on their performance ?

[thewupk]

I guess that would depend on their performance ?

Sure. But big contracts for pitchers usually don't end well.

[Dalyn]

Minor was a Super 2 last year, which means he is under team control for 2015, 2016 and 2017. Not that whether a player is under team control for 2017 should be the sole determining factor regarding whether we should trade him or not.

Yes. But he is going to get expensive before this magical 2017 Hart keeps talking about.

[Enscheff]

Minor was a Super 2 last year, which means he is under team control for 2015, 2016 and 2017. Not that whether a player is under team control for 2017 should be the sole determining factor regarding whether we should trade him or not.

I didn't realize Minor was under team control for 2017, but I think Hart has shown that the plan is to unload any asset that won't be a contributor to the 2017 team. Heyward and Walden would have been FAs by then, TLS would have lost his starting spot to Peraza by then, and since JUp won't be around he is going to be shipped out as well.

In fact, the main reason Hart gave for keeping Gattis and moving him to LF was that he was under control for 4 more years. Hart has been pretty clear about his plans with his statements and actions.

All of these actions tell me the plan is to build for 2017. I would imagine any FA acquisitions this offseason will either be for 1 year, or 4+ years.

[Dalyn]

It's crazy, but it's almost worth giving those 3 up for a bag of balls and you would be ahead of the game. You lose Minor but look at the money you have to sign some guys. So, I would be up for most any deal involving those 3.

You could get more than a bag of balls. Even tied to BJ, Upton and Minor together carry some value.

[COGPK]

You could get more than a bag of balls. Even tied to BJ, Upton and Minor together carry some value.

I realize that. Just making a point. You figure to lose Justin in a year anyway. You would be giving Minor away to get rid of BJ. But, in reality, we should get something for them. I wonder if Texas would bite since they are looking for pitching as well?

[Dalyn]

I realize that. Just making a point. You figure to lose Justin in a year anyway. You would be giving Minor away to get rid of BJ. But, in reality, we should get something for them. I wonder if Texas would bite since they are looking for pitching as well?

Yeah. I think Minor pretty much takes care of BJ, so you still should get Justin's value. The added trouble will be finding a team capable of taking all three.

[50PoundHead]

Been thinking about this for awhile now and I have a crazy deal that I think would benefit both teams, so here it goes...

Trade Justin Upton, Mike Minor, and David Hale to the Cincinnati Reds for Johnny Cueto, Jay Bruce, and Ben Lively.

-From the Reds perspective: They realize that the chances of them re-signing Cueto are slim to none mainly because of the contracts given to Joey Votto, Homer Bailey, and Brandon Phillips. Within the next 2-3 years (and sooner for some) they will be faced with extending Mat Latos (2015), Mike Leake (2015), Alfredo Simon (2015), Aroldis Chapman (2017), Todd Frazier (2018), and Devin Mesoraco (2018). With this trade it would allow them to compete this year and in the feature by giving them the needed protection for Votto in Upton (who could capitalize on Great American Ballpark in his contract year), and the rotation stability in Minor since they have numerous pitchers about to be FA.

-From the Braves perspective: We know we won't be able to extend Justin Upton, therefore trading him makes the most sense. In Cueto, we instantly gain an "Ace" or at least another top of the rotation starter who like Upton will be a free agent after this year. With the trade of Heyward and now Upton we have no outfield prospects who are ready to produce at the big league level and with this trade we get Jay Bruce -who is under contract thru 2017 (he has a $13 million club option for 2017)- who would become our RF of the future. Bruce has a ton of power and plays great defense in RF. Lively, who is a pretty decent RHP prospect would help even out the deal and could eventually become a solid #4/#5 starter.

With the money saved in the Heyward deal and now this one -we could gain even more by pairing B.J and Gattis together- we could go and sign Lester -for all intensive purposes- to take Minor's rotation spot. Now all of a sudden we are putting together a club that can compete now and in 2017. Our offense this year wouldn't have as much "pop" but with a tweak or two could give us all we need behind a rotation of: Lester/Cueto/Teheran/Wood/Miller. Now next year when Cueto and Dan Uggla's salaries come off our books, go use that money on a bat.

Just pure speculation on my part, but I would really like this.

I've heard the Reds are shopping Bruce, which is a bit surprising. He was their "Heyward" before having a miserable 2014 season. I want to make it clear I am only comparing Bruce to Heyward in a labelled commodity sense, not saying Bruce is better (or as good) than Heyward.

[GovClintonTyree]

Yeah. I think Minor pretty much takes care of BJ, so you still should get Justin's value. The added trouble will be finding a team capable of taking all three.

Hello, Z? John Hart here.

[Hawk]

Bob Nightengale
@BNightengale
The #Mariners would like to have #Braves OF Justin Upton but say they will explore the free agent market (Nelson Cruz) first.

[nsacpi]

Bob Nightengale
@BNightengale
The #Mariners would like to have #Braves OF Justin Upton but say they will explore the free agent market (Nelson Cruz) first.

We can afford to wait. There is a glut of pitching. Hitting is at a premium. Price of hitting relative to pitching is going to rise.

[Braves1976]

We can afford to wait. There is a glut of pitching. Hitting is at a premium. Price of hitting relative to pitching is going to rise.

True, though if we do a deal with Seattle for Justin Upton, then I'd like to do a package deal where we get Paxton or Walker and Michael Saunders. They seem to be willing to deal the latter, and since he is coming off an injury prone season, maybe we can buy low on him.

Saunders could play either RF or LF for us and fill in sparingly in centerfield as needed. But he isn't good in center-field despite what someone on here assumed, he has a career -25 DRS in centerfield (including -14 DRS in only 627 innings in 2013 and -13 DRS in 973 innings in 2012). However, Saunders is good in both RF and LF, 9 DRS in 758 innings over three years in right and 6 DRS in 1335 innings in left field.

PS: If we fall out of the playoff race in 2015 as expected due to a rebuild year (including still having Fredi as manager), then we could play him in centerfield too and not worry about it. The higher draft pick the better in that case.

[Enscheff]

We can afford to wait. There is a glut of pitching. Hitting is at a premium. Price of hitting relative to pitching is going to rise.

I'm actually surprised we haven't heard more rumors about Gattis being traded. In Cruz' career year last season he hit a HR every 17 PA, is probably going to cost $17M+ per year over 4+ years, isn't very good defensively, and is going to be 35. In his 2 year career Gattis has hit a HR every 18.2 PA. He would fit in perfectly for the M's as the primary DH and backup C.

My guess is if Hart signs Tomas, both Gattis and Upton will be traded. If Tomas signs elsewhere only Upton will be traded. If the return for either includes a MLB ready SP, Minor will be traded. If a 3B option comes back in one of those trades, CJ will be dumped on one of the teams that missed out on Sandoval and Headley.

All of the Braves remaining offseason moves hinge on where Tomas signs.

[GovClintonTyree]

I'm actually surprised we haven't heard more rumors about Gattis being traded. In Cruz' career year last season he hit a HR every 17 PA, is probably going to cost $17M+ per year over 4+ years, isn't very good defensively, and is going to be 35. In his 2 year career Gattis has hit a HR every 18.2 PA. He would fit in perfectly for the M's as the primary DH and backup C.

I think there will be opportunities to flip Justin. And we may have to wait for some of the teams to realize they ain't getting Tomas, or whomever. We can afford to be patient.

As a point of information, I was on some of the Seattle message boards where some of the proposals we find logical and reasonable (adding Gattis and getting back Taijuan, Saunders, Miller, for example) are met with absolute derision. "Why would we want a DH who's hurt half the time?" "DJ Peterson should be off the table." "Walker is our next ace." **** like that.

It's kind of like they overvalue their assets the same way we may overvalue ours from time to time. Shocking, I know.

[Braves1976]

I think there will be opportunities to flip Justin. And we may have to wait for some of the teams to realize they ain't getting Tomas, or whomever. We can afford to be patient.

As a point of information, I was on some of the Seattle message boards where some of the proposals we find logical and reasonable (adding Gattis and getting back Taijuan, Saunders, Miller, for example) are met with absolute derision. "Why would we want a DH who's hurt half the time?" "DJ Peterson should be off the table." "Walker is our next ace." **** like that.

It's kind of like they overvalue their assets the same way we may overvalue ours from time to time. Shocking, I know.

I agree with the patient approach, we should take our time given how in demand right handed power hitters are right now. Further, I am not surprised that the Seattle fans are very high on those prospects because they are very good prospects.

[Hawk]

I do worry a bit about the market watering down with names like Kemp and Bruce becoming available recently. It's probable other teams with surplus RHH power look to cash-in as well.