Braves sniffing around on Markakis; Official 4 years 44 million.

[Tapate50]

First I want to thank you for sharing the information on this issue with us here. It has been extremely enlightening.

I'm trying to get a handle on how big the gap between the two parties might have been.

From your previous posts I'm guessing Jason's agent was talking $250M over ten years. And the Braves maybe were willing to go up to 22M/year (for his free agent years) and less years (maybe 5 free agent years). Or am I way off base here.

I've seen him indicate 260m.

[thethe]

There is a plan. But it seems to include keeping fingers crossed on how the lineup will do with Bethancourt, Melvin, CJ and Simmons holding down four of the starting positions. To me this situation is the main obstacle to the team being competitive, whether it be in 2015 or beyond. I'd like to see some alternatives added to the roster that could provide more hitting at some those positions. I realize there are months to go before the roster is finalized, so some of my criticisms might be premature.

I have a feeling that Seitzer will really help Simmons. If he shortens up his swing a bit I think he could be a non-negative offensively. Not sure what to think on the others though.

[thethe]

Markakis for 4 years is a horrible idea. And I bet that most of the people thinking it's a good deal will be hating it by the time the new stadium opens. There are going to be some big time free agents available in the 2016 off season. Someone that would look great on the Braves to open the new stadium with. But not only will be stuck with Uptons contract in 2017 we will also be paying Markakis 11 million as well.

Sometimes you have to suck hard to truly get better. I don't agree with moving Heyward and Upton which is looks like they will do. But I understand it. Signing Markakis just doesn't fit. 4 years is way too long.

I just believe the Braves can't afford to suck with the fickle fanbase they have. Attendance would plummet and they would carry over huge losses to subsequent years.

[ramadon101]

First I want to thank you for sharing the information on this issue with us here. It has been extremely enlightening.

I'm trying to get a handle on how big the gap between the two parties might have been.

From your previous posts I'm guessing Jason's agent was talking $250M over ten years. And the Braves maybe were willing to go up to 22M/year (for his free agent years) and less years (maybe 5 free agent years). Or am I way off base here.

I wish the Braves were closer to be honest. I don't know total years discussed (it was over 8) but the AAV was $27-28m. Total dollars were closer to 260m. The Braves weren't north of 200. Casey also discussed an opt-out. End of story- shake hands, part ways cordially.

[Tapate50]

I wish the Braves were closer to be honest. I don't know total years discussed (it was over 8) but the AAV was $27-28m. Total dollars were closer to 260m. The Braves weren't north of 200. Casey also discussed an opt-out. End of story- shake hands, part ways cordially.

Do you think if JH had a great year last year we would have moved our offer up?

The opt out is a deal breaker and Close knows that. It almost sounds as if he wanted to make sure JH went to FA.

[nsacpi]

I wish the Braves were closer to be honest. I don't know total years discussed (it was over 8) but the AAV was $27-28m. Total dollars were closer to 260m. The Braves weren't north of 200. Casey also discussed an opt-out. End of story- shake hands, part ways cordially.

Just one more question Sir (said in my best detective Columbo imitation). What kind of AAV do you think the Braves had appetite for. I seem to remember you saying they were willing to go higher for Jason than they did for Freeman. Of course part might have been due to Freeman having more pre-free agency years included in his extension.

[ramadon101]

This recently popular trope of 'we must trust the FO because they have jobs in MLB (and are thusly experienced)' is really depressing to observe. Independent thought is a lost art, anymore.

I'm as independent a thinker as you're going to come across. In my profession, I have a duty (not just a moral obligation) to question the underpinnings of every decision my client makes. That being said, do you honestly believe you, thewupk, Meta, MFII, (and myself), etc. have access to the same kinds of data and information that the Braves front office does? The answer is no.

FYI it's not just Hart making these decisions.. JC is front and center and is quite good.

[thethe]

I'm as independent a thinker as you're going to come across. In my profession, I have a duty (not just a moral obligation) to question the underpinnings of every decision my client makes. That being said, do you honestly believe you, thewupk, Meta, MFII, (and myself), etc. have access to the same kinds of data and information that the Braves front office does? The answer is no.

FYI it's not just Hart making these decisions.. JC is front and center and is quite good.

I'm guessing you're an auditor. If thats the case do you have any suggestions on how to get involved within the accounting/auditing world of sports?

[thewupk]

I just believe the Braves can't afford to suck with the fickle fanbase they have. Attendance would plummet and they would carry over huge losses to subsequent years.

With the stadium moving to where most ticket buyers go I don't really see this being a big deal. And honestly the long term success of the team is more important than two years of attendance. I think using the money going to Nick to help payoff BJ and ship him out of town to where going into 2017 you have all of his salary would have been a smarter idea. Then you could make a huge splash in FA and get the fanbase excited again.

[ramadon101]

I'm guessing you're an auditor. If thats the case do you have any suggestions on how to get involved within the accounting/auditing world of sports?

Nope not an auditor... sorry bud. But Deloitte is the primary accounting/audit firm for MLB so I'd start there (and then branch out to a boutique after getting a few years of experience underneath your belt and establishing as many relationships in the industry as you can.)

[zitothebrave]

John Hart has done nothing to earn my trust.

Indeed. Dont' get the love for him. He did a good job in Cleveland 20 years ago, but massively sucked in Texas. Truth is he's part of the good old boys club with JS. I really hope they still know what they're doing, otherwise we'll be a long time sucking in Atlanta.

[Hawk]

That being said, do you honestly believe you, thewupk, Meta, MFII, (and myself), etc. have access to the same kinds of data and information that the Braves front office does? The answer is no.

Sabermetric data? Honestly, yes, I think we internet minions have access to a similar, if not more comprehensive, caliber of information.

Scouting data? That's really subjective. What makes a good scout? Eyes? Time spent on the job? There are roughly 600 employed by all 30 MLB teams combined, so it's not a particularly unique skillset. Plus, we have access to crowd-sourced perspective on a level that the FO doesn't.

Literally the only aspect of the equation we are not privy to is industry chatter -- and maybe that's a huge thing, considering executive-level MLB operations are almost universally GOB clubs.

Otherwise, there's precious little that differentiates our collective analysis on a transaction. Some of us here have advanced degrees in engineering, mathematics, and economics. Others in communications, politics, etc. We're fully capable of drawing our own conclusions. Perhaps it's even a little unwise to discount the overall groupthink.

[NinersSBChamps]

I aint got know college degree.

[ramadon101]

Sabermetric data? Honestly, yes, I think we internet minions have access to a similar, if not more comprehensive, caliber of information.

Scouting data? That's really subjective. What makes a good scout? Eyes? Time spent on the job? There are roughly 600 employed by all 30 MLB teams combined, so it's not a particularly unique skillset. Plus, we have access to crowd-source perspective on a level that the FO doesn't.

Literally the only aspect of the equation we are not privy to is industry chatter -- and maybe that's a huge thing, considering executive-level MLB operations are almost universally GOB clubs.

Otherwise, there's precious little that differentiates our collective analysis on a transaction. Some of us here have advanced degrees in engineering, mathematics, and economics. Others in communications, politics, etc. We're fully capable of drawing our own conclusions.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that we do NOT have access to the sabermetric data that the Braves (and other) front offices have. Without reservation or hesitation.

If you think your eyes are as good as some of the scouts on staff, I have a bridge to sell you. Crowd-sourcing is helpful but have you noticed the scouting talent and depth Hart has brought in this offseason?

I have post-graduate degrees from ivy league schools as well. But ipse se nihil scire id unum sciat -- I won't pretend to know more than those who have been in the field for 30+ years. It's not just Hart unilaterally making these decisions (or JS, or JC, etc.) It's consensus. You have every right to be critical, of course, and MFII is right that he doesn't have to blindly trust this FO but I know they have access to better information than we do (and it's not close).

[MadduxFanII]

I'm as independent a thinker as you're going to come across. In my profession, I have a duty (not just a moral obligation) to question the underpinnings of every decision my client makes. That being said, do you honestly believe you, thewupk, Meta, MFII, (and myself), etc. have access to the same kinds of data and information that the Braves front office does? The answer is no.

FYI it's not just Hart making these decisions.. JC is front and center and is quite good.

First of all, everyone is smarter than me and has more information than me. If I couldn't criticize people who knew more than I did, I'd live a very boring existence.

Still, I have a brain. Not much of one, perhaps, but I still take a certain amount of pride in being able to use it. I've been watching this game for a long time. Not as long as Schuerholz, Hart and Cox, of course, but long enough that I believe I have a pretty decent sense of what wins games, so I feel qualified in at least trying to come to informed conclusions about transactions.

That said, I acknowledge that there are times when trust in a front office is healthy and wise. Executives with proven track records of success do merit a certain degree of deference. For example, just off the top of my head, if we had a GM who had lifted the franchise from a dark, talent-bereft period where we were relying on the likes of Chuck James, Jorge Campillo and Buddy Carlyle to a point where we won, I don't know, say, 190 games over two seasons, then sure, that guy would earn some trust and deference. Not unthinking, unblinking trust, but certainly a healthy level of patience and understanding.

But for some reason we don't have that guy. Now, a new front office can quickly earn that level of trust through a series of shrewd moves. Instead, this franchise has:

1. Begged, pleaded, wheedled and cajoled John Hart into the big chair after a four-year run in Texas which saw him average two fewer victories per year than the team won in a season that was so unacceptable it got his predecessor fired

2. Shipped out Kyle Wren in a trade that was utterly unsupportable on baseball grounds as punishment for committing the sin of being Frank Wren's son

3. Traded our best second base option, however flawed and limited, for a sore-armed minor league reliever with an elaborate injury history who hasn't been particularly successful over a full season since 2011

4. Traded arguably our best player and inarguably one of the only three or four hitters on the team worth a damn for an undeniably talented but inconsistent and recently unimpressive young pitcher and a prospect who has spent his career alternating between getting his head kicked in and getting hurt.

5. Gave Jim Johnson a guaranteed major league contract and $1.6 million after a season in which he put up an ERA over 7

6. Gave a 31-year-old middling outfielder a four-year contract for $11 million a year.

Ain't none of that confidence-inspiring. Is it possible Hart and Co. can turn it around and garner a huge return for Upton Magnus? Sure. But I'll believe it when I see it, because this front office has earned nothing more.

[yeezus]

I think they don't want to suck really bad before they move into the new stadium while sill accumulating assets to be realy good when they move in. Sounds like a clear plan to me.

It's actually quite vague and ambiguous.

[yeezus]

lol Heyward wanted 27-28 mil? I don't even believe that, for a second.

[Hawk]

Ken Rosenthal
@Ken_Rosenthal
Sources: Markakis leaning toward surgery to repair bulging disc in neck. Recovery time up to 12 weeks. #Braves knew of possibility.

Ken Rosenthal
@Ken_Rosenthal
Before signing Markakis, #Braves viewed report of specialist who did independent evaluation of him. Confident he will be ready Opening Day.

[BRule]

Ken Rosenthal
@Ken_Rosenthal
Sources: Markakis leaning toward surgery to repair bulging disc in neck. Recovery time up to 12 weeks. #Braves knew of possibility.

Ken Rosenthal
@Ken_Rosenthal
Before signing Markakis, #Braves viewed report of specialist who did independent evaluation of him. Confident he will be ready Opening Day.

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Hawk]

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

What is the 'HAHAHAHA' equivalent of tears?