Post Post-Heyward Discussion Here.

[50PoundHead]

I don't disagree with that. But I think the Braves could have afforded Heyward if they wanted to. They just don't see him as worth what it will take. I don't think money available is really the issue. Heyward should have been locked up after his first year.

If that's the case, then Wren probably didn't think he was worth it either. I guess what I'm trying that the denouement on Heyward has roots that go back to decisions made during the previous front office. I agree that they should have made a big play on him when he became eligible for arbitration.

[Metaphysicist]

I don't really think there was a "previous front office." The new boss is the same as the old boss.

[nsacpi]

I don't really think there was a "previous front office." The new boss is the same as the old boss.

I agree. The Braves front office has a setup very much like France. There is the President (JS) and he appoints the Prime Minister (General Manager with or without title) whose job is to run things according to the President's wishes and to take the fall when things don't go well. The President stays somewhat above the fray and does not get too involved in the nitty gritty, so as to make it easier to use the PM (GM) as a shield.

[Hawk]

I agree. The Braves front office has a setup very much like France.

In this extended metaphor is Fredi Gonzalez Carla Bruni and Coppy Valérie Trierweiler?

[nsacpi]

In this extended metaphor is Fredi Gonzalez Carla Bruni and Coppy Valérie Trierweiler?

I was going to say finance minister. But Fredi and Levi-Strauss are not quite the same animal. At least not to my knowledge. Bobby is de Gaulle's ghost.

vive la France! go Braves!

[50PoundHead]

You're looking way too far into that whole scenario. Details have been documented, and jibe with the timeline. They were looking for a RH powering hitting OF. Wren couldn't find one. So, even though a 2B was not the first choice, as a former "super sub," they didn't expect resistance from Prado at moving positions. Fredi's opinion was asked about the deal before it was completed. His response was (maybe paraphrasing slightly) "who else are you giving up?"

Yeah, we have plenty of posters who act as if they foresaw the rapid decline. Hell, these are the professionals. Uggla was hitting maybe .250, but he was always good for 40HR/100 RBI's, banging doubles in a lineup that had not much other than Hanley. So, let's not pretend that this was "damaged goods" at the time it happened.

(1) Uggla never hit 40 HRs.
(2) Uggla drove in 100 runs once.
(3) I get that we needed a RH power bat and Uggla was one at the time, but for a team that was supposedly limiting payroll, length of contract is an important element, especially in this instance with Heyward and Freeman on the horizon.
(4) Uggla was always lousy on defense, he was unathletic, and he had the kind of body that wasn't likely to age well.
(5) No one can know for sure how things are ever going to turn out, but I think the commitment of the additional four years went too far. The initial trade was fine.

[Julio3000]

I was going to say finance minister. But Fredi and Levi-Strauss are not quite the same animal. At least not to my knowledge. Bobby is de Gaulle's ghost.

vive la France! go Braves!

Say what you will about our front office. They're way less rape-y than your average French cabinet ministers.

[50PoundHead]

Say what you will about our front office. They're way less rape-y than your average French cabinet ministers.

I don't know. I think JS might be sort of kinky. Have the ladies tie him up with his suspenders.

[Julio3000]

I don't know. I think JS might be sort of kinky. Have the ladies tie him up with his suspenders.

I can't even follow that.

Sadly, I can imagine it. Thanks.

[GovClintonTyree]

I don't know. I think JS might be sort of kinky. Have the ladies tie him up with his suspenders.

Fairly certain they're a staple of autoerotic asphyxiation.

[Julio3000]

"Would you say this is championship-caliber?"

[jpx7]

"Oooo, damn: you stink worse than the economics of baseball!"

[Knucksie]

(1) Uggla never hit 40 HRs.
(2) Uggla drove in 100 runs once.

Stand corrected. Was trying to go from memory (without checking Baseball Reference first). Nevertheless, he was a Braves-killer as a Marlin and there was every reason to believe that the production would carry over. To be sure, his first year with the Braves was about what was expected of him, production-wise. Averaging over 30 HR's & 90 RBI's still gets attention.

I get that we needed a RH power bat and Uggla was one at the time, but for a team that was supposedly limiting payroll, length of contract is an important element, especially in this instance with Heyward and Freeman on the horizon.

Not sure how much they were expecting out those 2 as rookies, but the lineup was otherwise lefty heavy.

(4) Uggla was always lousy on defense, he was unathletic, and he had the kind of body that wasn't likely to age well.

This is beyond the scope of my post. Mine was only a response to Zito's comment about there being some grand scheme. It was directed toward the rationale at the time the trade was completed, not about the extension. As far as those 2 other factors, these obviously didn't weight in with a excellent defensive SS options in Atlanta. Not totally sold on the "unathletic" part, as he certainly possessed strength. We never really found out the exact cause of the subsequent decline, after attempts at eye surgery, off season conditioning, coaching, etc.

Also note that some of our "stathead" buddies made plenty of noise about trying to acquire Nick Swisher and Adam Dunn.

(5) No one can know for sure how things are ever going to turn out, but I think the commitment of the additional four years went too far. The initial trade was fine.

We've discussed it enough. However, this wouldn't have been as big of an issue without the double-dip of BJ as well. A lot of posters here act as if the Braves are the only team in baseball, who've had to deal with bad contracts.