Gattis Traded To Astros (pg. 13)

[thethe]

It's possible. Clark's strength was in the draft and sign system which no longer exists. Hopefully he can still get it done with the Braves budget issues.

Budget issues stemming from market inequality have been severely nerfed with the darft slotting system. Every team is pretty much on even ground. The inernational market is where the big market teams can flex their muscles now. If things go right with Cobb (making sure they are good by 2017) then the Baves will get a huge influx of revenues to help give them more spinach in the international market as well.

[ChapelHillMatt]

Wren did some good things and some bad things. I don't think he was a terrible GM but his Free Agent signings did him in. Ultimately the signing of BJ and Uggla cost him his job, those are two gigantic mistakes that teams with our kind of payroll simply can't make.

[sturg33]

To be clear, I'm a fan of this deal. My only beef is we are not getting any premium offensive talent back in exchange for our 3 premium offensive talents we dealt.

[zitothebrave]

To me being on the edge of the playoffs is a perfectly acceptable place to be. Just about every year a team like that gets some pixie dust sprinkled on it and does something special. In 2014 it was the Royals. I'm pretty fatalistic about the factors that govern the distribution of pixie dust. The gods in control of it have not favored us in some time. But I'm perfectly ok with having a team that is just good enough to get a lottery ticket into the post-season. Even a wild card ticket is fine to me. It is worth noting that two wild card teams played in the WS this past season.

Giants were also a lightning in a bottle team too. Dodgers were supposed to run away with the NL. Maybe the Nats could have been the other team. No one considered the Giants even a little bit a part of the picture. In the AL everyone figured it would be the Angels. Or the Tigers pitchign would match their hitting and they'd explode. And it happens basically regularly. Of the last 5 WS matchups 3 out of 10 of the teams had 95 or more wins, same number as the number of teams under 90 wins. If you go to 10 years 8 out of 20 teams had 95 or more wins, and 5 with less than 90. There's no magic formula for winning the world series despite what some think. Under Wren we were constantly in the playoff mix. If we had a more competent manager than Fredi, we probably have at least 1 more playoff birth as well.

[yeezus]

The FO sold high on Gattis. This is just a really good trade. I'm not worried about where the prospects play, getting pieces with upside is the key. Pieces can always be moved. I wouldn't take on a prospect the FO had ranked below Folty just because he played the OF. Take the best deal.

[gilesfan]

Then why leave in the first place? He coul d have gotten the same role compensation here. Isnt Kasten with the Dodgers? Why not go there?

He got a promotion and I'm sure a raise with Washington and the chance to work with his good buddy.

[thethe]

He got a promotion and I'm sure a raise with Washington and the chance to work with his good buddy.

And yet he was in an incredible organization (Dodgers) with limitless money and opportunities and he decided to come back to the Braves less than a month after Wren/Manno were fired. What a strange move!

[gilesfan]

And yet he was in an incredible organization (Dodgers) with limitless money and opportunities and he decided to come back to the Braves less than a month after Wren/Manno were fired. What a strange move!

He was only a cross checker with the Dodgers. Plus, did Kasten leave?

[CyYoung31]

To be fair, many posters on this board have been overly negative since Wren was shown the door and Heyward was traded. So historically, these posters have not been negative but recent history has shown a different face.

No, that's not fair. We're critical and we have a right to be. No one is being unreasonable.

[jpx7]

To be clear, I'm a fan of this deal. My only beef is we are not getting any premium offensive talent back in exchange for our 3 premium offensive talents we dealt.

And, more concerning, to me, "not getting any premium offensive talent back" seems to be the explicit goal of Hart, not just what ends up being the best mix of prospects in the case of each trade.

[clvclv]

Some posters are always grumpy, some are always positive, some are nervous nellies. The ones that are of interest to me are those with an opinion that is backed up by some facts and logic. That sometimes are positive on a deal and sometimes negative depending on some criteria they take the trouble to explain to the rest of us.

I've withheld my opinion thus far because I'm still on the fence a little - not that Gattis shouldn't have been dealt, but because I'm more interested in hearing what Texas might've been offering. To this point, no luck so...

I am happy to see that more and more posters seem to be warming to the rebuilding process now that things are more clear. While Hart wasn't as hamstrung as he was with Jason and Justin given Gattis' contract situation, he was still somewhat at a disadvantage - Gattis' value was obviously highest to AL teams (cutting the suitors in half), and perhaps more importantly, he really didn't want to enter the season with him in LF. If he actually played him out there everyday the chances were pretty good that his value would've declined quickly. Teams would get to see him play defense out there even more - increasing the chances that he then became viewed as strictly a DH, OR he gets hurt trying to chase balls down and almost completely loses his value.

Since I'm the resident optimist (outside of thethe of course), I will say that I'm thrilled with the return because I believe in our pitching gurus and think they're going to find that key to Foltyniewicz' control that Houston hasn't. If only that happens, we "won the deal". If he throws strikes, he's a #1 - no question. I've heard Garrett Richards comps tossed around, and I think they're pretty good - Richards struggled with his control for a good while before the light finally came on, then you see what happened last season before he got hurt.

I'm not personally as high on Ruiz as MLB Pipeline is, but think there's little doubt that he's better than Kubitza and Peterson so he's easily better than any 3B we had or now have in the system IF he sticks at 3B. There are already questions about his defense. I'm not AS worried about his power since you eventually expect some of those 37 2Bs to carry over the fences. TP and our developmental guys need to hound him about defense every day after they get their hands on him because if he can't cut it at 3B we probably won't have anywhere for him to play (he certainly can't slide across the diamond any time soon).

Thurman's likely back-end of a rotation fodder, but our front office made a living including guys like him in trades to get pieces we need for the big club for a long time - can't ever have enough of them. Much like we used to do (and Tampa Bay did in more recent years), you ALWAYS try to get that extra arm thrown in - you never know what you might get.

The only thing that has kept me from dancing around the room since I heard about the deal is that this is the only deal Hart's made so far where I actually would've preferred a hitter as the throw-in over the arm. I'd have loved to get Derek Fisher or Brett Phillips instead of Thurman. The reason I wanted to hear what Texas was offering is that even though they supposedly wouldn't include Alex Gonzalez, I also might've rather had Nomar Mazara, Jake Thompson, and Ryan Rua over what we ultimately received given the pitching depth we've already accumulated and the fact that we could've then used both of our 1st round picks this June on high-ceiling arms.

[Hawk]

Buster Olney
@Buster_ESPN
Gattis swap was held up for few hours when HOU had concerns about Gattis's knee/back. ATL re-engaged TEX before working out the HOU deal.

[Heyward]

Not that i prefered going "for it" this year... but had we done so, we would have still gotten draft pick compensation. The difference between that and what we got for the Upton and Heyward trades wasnt that dramatic. Imo.

Highly doubtful we get anyone as good as Miller in the draft next year.

Even if we kept them, not like we were making the playoffs given lack of money to fill other needs around.

[Heyward]

And, more concerning, to me, "not getting any premium offensive talent back" seems to be the explicit goal of Hart, not just what ends up being the best mix of prospects in the case of each trade.

Yeah not like they're stock-piling all this pitching to eventually trade for some hitting?

[cajunrevenge]

Mazara and Gonzalez were off the table according to MLBTR. It really sounds like Texas is just looking for someone to give away their players.

[jpx7]

Yeah not like they're stock-piling all this pitching to eventually trade for some hitting?

Yea, which seems like a super-smart plan, considering the current glut of talented pitching and dearth of talented hitting across the major-leagues.

Basically:

1. Trade young, premium offensive talent (almost solely) for talent on the side of the ball where good young players aren't at a premium.
2. ?
3. Championships!

[thewupk]

Yeah not like they're stock-piling all this pitching to eventually trade for some hitting?

Because it always works out that way.

[yeezus]

Yea, which seems like a super-smart plan, considering the current glut of talented pitching and dearth of talented hitting across the major-leagues.

Basically:

1. Trade young, premium offensive talent (almost solely) for talent on the side of the ball where good young players aren't at a premium.
2. ?
3. Championships!

Just trying to monopolize the young SP market.
We're 1/10000000 of the way there. Relax.

[Runnin]

And, more concerning, to me, "not getting any premium offensive talent back" seems to be the explicit goal of Hart, not just what ends up being the best mix of prospects in the case of each trade.

One step at a time and pitching comes first. Btw, Wren thought he was getting "premium offensive talent" with Uggla and JUpton.

[gilesfan]

If we have every pitcher, the other team won't have any