Kimbrel As A Trade Candidate

[clvclv]

I know Hart's saying "it's not even being considered" but we're all well aware that he's also said they're open and looking at every option to improve. Since Jason, Justin, and Gattis were on the table, we all know better.

Mainly starting the thread to centralize the talk about Kimbrel specifically since they're saying that the Grilli signing doesn't impact Kimbrel at all. Meta posted several recent returns in closer trades in the Grilli thread, so what would you think moving Kimbrel might net the Braves?

If dealing him gets you a Daniel Norris, Max Pentecost, plus or Profar and Mazara coming back don't you HAVE to take the deal?

I'd even argue that dealing Kimbrel allows you to keep Gattis - you'd likely get at least one high-ceiling arm ready to step into the rotation plus or two inexpensive offensive pieces in return.



So no one has to dig, here's Meta's list...

"Well here are some trades of closers:

- The Tigers gave up Jake Thompson and Corey Knebel for Soria. So let's start there and go up.
- The Red Sox gave up Josh Reddick + others for Andrew Bailey
- The Angels gave up Taylor Lindsey, Jose Rondon, R.J. Alvarez and Elliot Morris for Street
- The Diamondbacks gave up Matt Davidson for Addison Reed
- The Phillies gave up Michael Bourn and some detritus for Brad Lidge

So those are the starting points, but then adjust those packages up since Kimbrel is better than any of those guys."

http://www.chopcountry.com/forums/sh...886#post180886

[Oklahomabrave]

If the Blue Jays get desperate they'd be an ideal trading partner. Is prefer not to package Gattis and Kimbrel together, I think that negates a lot of potential value in a return.

[sturg33]

BJ + Kimbrel to Tigers for nothing. Let them pay the salaries... We clear about $30 million in payroll.

[thethe]

BJ + Kimbrel to Tigers for nothing. Let them pay the salaries... We clear about $30 million in payroll.

Not sure why everyone is concerned with payroll the next couple of years. This move would have made sense prior to Justin Upton or Heyward being traded so we could lock them up. At this point salary relief doesn't help the Braves since we probably won't be competing any time soon.

In 2 years it will be much easier to trade BJ under the following reasonsable and some not so reasonable assumptions:

1) Salaries are going to skyrocket which makes it easier to absorb 15 million for a center fielder who can still field his position
2) With only 2 years left going into 2017 the Braves only would have to absord a small amount to move the contract
3) BJ could theoretically show small improvements which makes him more movable

I just don't see any reason to trade BJ right now unless someone gives us a stupid deal. He can still play CF which is a need for us right now.

[bravesnumberone]

If we were packaging someone with Kimbrel, would rather have done that before giving Justin away. I'd rather wait to trade Kimbrel in July. Always a couple contenders with bullpen troubles.

[thethe]

If we were packaging someone with Kimbrel, would rather have done that before giving Justin away. I'd rather wait to trade Kimbrel in July. Always a couple contenders with bullpen troubles.

Thats the most logical course of action. Team could potentially give up two top 50 prospects considering the dire need and how many years he's locked up on.

[Hawk]

I wouldn't mind trading Kimbrel, but the idea of the Braves getting a massive haul is fool's gold.

Anyways, signing young players to long-term team friendly deals and then immediately trading them is pretty Marlins-esque. Can't imagine it engendering much desire for people to play in Atlanta.

[SidSlid92]

I'm ok trading Kimbrel. Can't see us paying him the $15 mil+ that he will demand when he becomes a FA down the road.

Blue Jays are rumored to want a closer, and have numerous prospects of interest: Norris, Pompey, Travis, Castro, Urena, Nay.

I would love a deal of Kimbrel plus prospect or 2 for Norris or Pompey and then 2 of Castro/Travis/Nay.

[thethe]

I wouldn't mind trading Kimbrel, but the idea of the Braves getting a massive haul is fool's gold.

Anyways, signing young players to long-term team friendly deals and then immediately trading them is pretty Marlins-esque. Can't imagine it engendering much desire for people to play in Atlanta.

Trading the best closer in baseball who is still young and signed for a few years should get plenty in a deal. Not like trading a starter or an everyday player but Kimbrel is not your everyday closer.

[Heyward]

No way you give away BJ and Kimbrel, maybe if they re-signed JUp/Jason but that isnt the case.

Uggla is off the books next year and the payroll with the new stadium should only increase.

Im not sure what his trade value is but i wouldnt give him away. He isnt your everyday closer.

[Hawk]

Trading the best closer in baseball who is still young and signed for a few years should get plenty in a deal. Not like trading a starter or an everyday player but Kimbrel is not your everyday closer.

Define 'plenty' -- are we still on the more prospects equal better farm system kick?

I think the Braves could reasonably expect one highly projectable prospect and two mid-level types for Kimbrel.

[thethe]

Define 'plenty' -- are we still on the more prospects equal better farm system kick?

I think the Braves could reasonably expect one highly projectable prospect and two mid-level types.

Better farm system equals more flexibility to shape your roster in the future. This organization needs options as the last plan crashed and burned.

Rangers got Kneubel and and Thompson for Soria. Kimbrel is much better than him. Not sure why we shouldn't expect a great haul for him. Kimbrel is on his way to being hte best closer in the history of baseball. Using prior trades just sets the absolute minimum threshold it will take to get Kimbrel.

[Hawk]

Better farm system equals more flexibility to shape your roster in the future. This organization needs options as the last plan crashed and burned.

Rangers got Kneubel and and Thompson for Soria. Kimbrel is much better than him. Not sure why we shouldn't expect a great haul for him. Kimbrel is on his way to being hte best closer in the history of baseball. Using prior trades just sets the absolute minimum threshold it will take to get Kimbrel.

The last plan did not 'crash and burn'. It was intentionally scuttled.

My point is that quantity does not equal quality. I would take one guaranteed Major League contributor for Kimbrel. The Braves would be happy if one/two of the bunch they acquired for Justin Upton makes it to the Bigs and puts up numbers of some significance.

[thethe]

The last plan did not 'crash and burn'. It was intentionally scuttled.

My point is that quantity does not equal quality. I would take one guaranteed Major League contributor for Kimbrel. The Braves would be happy if one/two of the bunch they acquired for Justin Upton makes it to the Bigs and puts up numbers of some significance.

It was scuttled because the team sucked last year and we were facing doom with 2 of the best 3 players about to leave in FA because the previous GM saddled the organization with awful contracts to negative contributors. The whole goal is to get back to the point where there are a lot of attractive options on the farm so that when the team is ready they can be on the other end of a Justin Upton deal and get the star player with hopes to retain them.

Depends on what hte guaranteed contributor is but I would rather take a few high value lottery tickets and hope the developmental system the Braves are rebuilding (which was shattered by the last GM) can bring these guys to the majors as big time pieces.

[Carp]

Trading the best closer in baseball who is still young and signed for a few years should get plenty in a deal. Not like trading a starter or an everyday player but Kimbrel is not your everyday closer.

Sure but he's also not cheap which is important. Jays could have easily signed Robertson or Miller for what Kimbrell is getting paid.

If the Jays trade for anyone, I'd be willing to be it will be for Paps, who has experience pitching in the AL East and doesn't have as much money tied to him.

[Hawk]

It was scuttled because the team sucked last year and we were facing doom with 2 of the best 3 players about to leave in FA because the previous GM saddled the organization with awful contracts to negative contributors. The whole goal is to get back to the point where there are a lot of attractive options on the farm so that when the team is ready they can be on the other end of a Justin Upton deal and get the star player with hopes to retain them.

Depends on what hte guaranteed contributor is but I would rather take a few high value lottery tickets and hope the developmental system the Braves are rebuilding (which was shattered by the last GM) can bring these guys to the majors as big time pieces.

That's some spectacularly unreal Wren hatred. Doom because Jason Heyward and Justin Upton were going to be free agents? No.

One bad contract in BJ Upton (Uggla's is already paid off according to the team)? Keep in mind we're talking about $15MM per annum -- not $25MM.

One bad year and suddenly a team 'sucks'? Talk about a fair-weather.

I'm not about to climb on the prospect bandwagon because it's a recipe for disappointment. Prospects are like Chinese iPad knockoffs -- a one in ten chance of actually turning on (but damn, they look like the real thing!)

Give me Major League ready talent please, especially in exchange for the 'best closer in baseball'.

[thethe]

That's some spectacularly unreal Wren hatred. Doom because Jason Heyward and Justin Upton were going to be free agents? No.

One bad contract in BJ Upton (Uggla's is already paid off according to the team)? Keep in mind we're talking about $15MM per annum -- not $25MM.

One bad year and suddenly a team 'sucks'? Talk about a fair-weather.

I'm not about to climb on the prospect bandwagon because it's a recipe for disappointment. Prospects are like Chinese iPad knockoffs -- a one in ten chance of actually turning on (but damn, they look like the real thing!)

Give me Major League ready talent please, especially in exchange for the 'best closer in baseball'.

The impending doom was clear to the Braves in that 2017 that new ball park would be open and the team would be barely a 500 team after Jason/Justin walked out the door coupled with an awful farm system. The Braves used to churn out young player after young player for 15 years. Now, that organization is getting back together after Wren alienated everyone to the point where we saw mass exodus from the organization. Even guys like Keith Law who are ALWAYS hard on the Braves have praised what the Braves have done in the recent months with how they brought back so many talented scouts. Its time to go back to the way things were done when we would automatically win division after division.

Wren was given a plethora of talent to work with and he couldn't get the job done. Glad we are turning the page.

[bravesnumberone]

Who are we getting that's gonna have us better than .500 in 2017?

[sturg33]

Not sure why everyone is concerned with payroll the next couple of years. This move would have made sense prior to Justin Upton or Heyward being traded so we could lock them up. At this point salary relief doesn't help the Braves since we probably won't be competing any time soon.

In 2 years it will be much easier to trade BJ under the following reasonsable and some not so reasonable assumptions:

1) Salaries are going to skyrocket which makes it easier to absorb 15 million for a center fielder who can still field his position
2) With only 2 years left going into 2017 the Braves only would have to absord a small amount to move the contract
3) BJ could theoretically show small improvements which makes him more movable

I just don't see any reason to trade BJ right now unless someone gives us a stupid deal. He can still play CF which is a need for us right now.

Clearing $30 million in salary makes sense to me bc:

1. BJ sucks
2. Kimbrel won't be able to help us anytime soon

We can use that money for someone like Cueto or Price next offseason... Or a big trade. Point is, losing Kimbrel doesn't really hurt us right now. Losing BJ clearly helps

[thethe]

Who are we getting that's gonna have us better than .500 in 2017?

The belief is that the current major league core talent will continue to get better and then the next wave of players comes up ready to play. Then you have available salary to make a splash in FA.