Chris Johnson - NL Batting Leader

[zitothebrave]

And defensive metrics still aren't great so its not something you can just point to and say yeah you're right. Its part of the equation. Chris has not been awful like you make him out to be defensively.

Still aren't great but they're light years better than uneducated guesses of fans. For starters fans typically only watch their own team. It may not dawn on them the epic gulf between Longoria/Beltre, and Johnson. Second fans don't have the ability to judge what the league average player would make. Every defensive metric agrees, Chris Johnson is bad with the glove, pretty sure that means he's bad with the glove. I'd take them 10 times out of 10 over the opinion offered by fans of the game.

[thethe]

Myth. The accepted baseball prime has to do with opinion rather than fact.

It's pretty much accepted that way because that's what stands out to people.

Evan Longoria is 27 now, he's having no betteer year at 27 than he did as a 22-24 year old.

Only truth is that different players have different peaks. So maybe JOhnson is one of those rare freaks who peaks very late. But I wouldn't be willing to bet 5+ million on it. I'm fairly sure he returns to the player he was before this year, good hitter terrible defender instead of very good hitter terrible defender.

Evan Longoria isn't any better because Evan Longoria was a tremendously gifted player. Thats such a silly argument. Of course the starts are going to be just as good right away. There have been plenty of players that have gotten better with experience.

[zitothebrave]

Oh, I didn't know that, I thought he was cheap.

He made 2.8 million this year and is having his best season, he may not get much over 5 if he doesn't win the title, but he's gonna get paid and I'd much rather invest that money elsewhere than on a 2 WAR player.

[thethe]

Still aren't great but they're light years better than uneducated guesses of fans. For starters fans typically only watch their own team. It may not dawn on them the epic gulf between Longoria/Beltre, and Johnson. Second fans don't have the ability to judge what the league average player would make. Every defensive metric agrees, Chris Johnson is bad with the glove, pretty sure that means he's bad with the glove. I'd take them 10 times out of 10 over the opinion offered by fans of the game.

I watch Chris Johnson everyday and he doesn't make mistakes that cost the team runs as often as you make it out to be. Nobody is saying he is average or even good. We are just refuting that he is an awful disgrace to baseball like you make him out to be.

[zitothebrave]

Evan Longoria isn't any better because Evan Longoria was a tremendously gifted player. Thats such a silly argument. Of course the starts are going to be just as good right away. There have been plenty of players that have gotten better with experience.

I'd like that list

The other thing you fail to mention with your "accepted peak" is that the accepted path after the peak is very far down. More than a few hitters hit 30 and drop off the face of the earth.

Some more, David Wright's best season was at 24, Pujols at 23, I could go on but the truth is that players are generally just more consistent in those seasons than they were younger, not always better. So you're less likely to have say an 8 WAR season followed by a 5 WAR season. You're more likely to have 3 7 WAR seasons.

[GovClintonTyree]

He made 2.8 million this year and is having his best season, he may not get much over 5 if he doesn't win the title, but he's gonna get paid and I'd much rather invest that money elsewhere than on a 2 WAR player.

Half the WAR calc is built with a shaky defensive metric that I don't believe in. It's not all WAR, as much as you would like it to be. Wren agrees with me, BTW. Q

[zitothebrave]

I watch Chris Johnson everyday and he doesn't make mistakes that cost the team runs as often as you make it out to be. Nobody is saying he is average or even good. We are just refuting that he is an awful disgrace to baseball like you make him out to be.

Again, it's not always the mistakes you make as much as the plays you don't. Scary thing is that Johnson has the best defensive SS in baseball next to him making things easier for him and he's still struggling to make plays.

[zitothebrave]

Half the WAR calc is built with a shaky defensive metric that I don't believe in. It's not all WAR, as much as you would like it to be. Wren agrees with me, BTW. Q

You can choose not to believe in it, that's fine, Johnson on his career is a good hitter terrible defender. There's value to that but it's not 5 million to this team. We need that money for Hudson and Mac.

Let's talk about players on our team who would potentially make close to the same or more money than Johnson.

Hudson, McCann, Medlen, Heyward, Kimbrel, Freeman, and maybe Beachy. Is there one of those players you're willing to say I want Chris Johnson more than you? Cause I want all of them WAY more than I'd want Chris JOhnson. Way more.

[thethe]

I'd like that list

The other thing you fail to mention with your "accepted peak" is that the accepted path after the peak is very far down. More than a few hitters hit 30 and drop off the face of the earth.

Some more, David Wright's best season was at 24, Pujols at 23, I could go on but the truth is that players are generally just more consistent in those seasons than they were younger, not always better. So you're less likely to have say an 8 WAR season followed by a 5 WAR season. You're more likely to have 3 7 WAR seasons.

And then you have players like Chris Davis/David Ortiz/Miguel Cabrera who clearly peaked at those ages.

[thethe]

Again, it's not always the mistakes you make as much as the plays you don't. Scary thing is that Johnson has the best defensive SS in baseball next to him making things easier for him and he's still struggling to make plays.

I dont know what you're watching but when I watch Chris Johnson makes plays. But, you can continue to dive into the numbers and not watch the games.

[zitothebrave]

And then you have players like Chris Davis/David Ortiz/Miguel Cabrera who clearly peaked at those ages.

David Ortiz juiced and had Manny (on roids) hitting behind him. Miggy was insane his whole career.

[zitothebrave]

I dont know what you're watching but when I watch Chris Johnson makes plays. But, you can continue to dive into the numbers and not watch the games.

Yay thethe's expert opinion FTW!!!

[Braves1976]

Chris Johnson is having a career year thus far with the bat, but he's still a bad defender. However, the same is true of Uggla and Justin Upton has the second worst DRS (-8 last I checked) on the team. So it's not like he doesn't have company in that regard. Further, Simmons and Freeman are the reason the Braves have been able to be successful with both Uggla and CJ being bad defensively. It is truly impressive just how great Simmons is defensively, how many plays he makes to cover those not made by them. As Zito noted, it's not simply errors but the plays CJ doesn't make due to lack of range, etc.

That said, I didn't think CJ would be able to make up for his bad defense with his bat. But so far he's did so and I hope that continues.

[jsebe10]

Lol stupid stat heads...

Why is it every time one of our has a decent season, some of you want to trade them away?

[thethe]

David Ortiz juiced and had Manny (on roids) hitting behind him. Miggy was insane his whole career.

Miggy is having his best years the last three years. Coincidentally his prime years.

[thethe]

Yay thethe's expert opinion FTW!!!

You continually state that he isn't making plays. Please cite your examples outside of a formula that is not even close to being accurate at this point in time.

[zitothebrave]

He has been exceptional the last 3 years. Miggy is awesome and always has been.

[zitothebrave]

You continually state that he isn't making plays. Please cite your examples outside of a formula that is not even close to being accurate at this point in time.

Why would I site my sources when they're clearly out there?

[thethe]

He has been exceptional the last 3 years. Miggy is awesome and always has been.

Has he not been better in his age 27-30 years?

[thethe]

Why would I site my sources when they're clearly out there?

Outside of your stats which are not close to being at a level accurate enough to be conclusive.