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Thread: Seattle Restaurant Closings

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    Waiting for Free Agency acesfull86's Avatar
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    Seattle Restaurant Closings

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    As the implementation date for Seattle’s strict $15 per hour minimum wage law approaches, the city is experiencing a rising trend in restaurant closures. The tough new law goes into effect April 1st.

    The closings have occurred across the city, from Grub in the upscale Queen Anne Hill neighborhood, to Little Uncle in gritty Pioneer Square, to the Boat Street Cafe on Western Avenue near the waterfront.

    The shut-downs have idled dozens of low-wage workers, the very people advocates say the wage law is supposed to help. Instead of delivering the promised “living wage” of $15 an hour, economic realities created by the new law have dropped the hourly wage for these workers to zero.

    Restaurants close for many reasons, but Seattle has an added a unique factor. Seattle Magazine reports, “...another major factor affecting restaurant futures in our city is the impending minimum wage hike to $15 per hour.” About 36% of restaurant earnings go to paying labor costs.

    Advocates of a high minimum wage said businesses would simply pay the mandated wage out of profits, raising earnings for workers. Restaurants operate on thin margins, though, with average profits of 4% or less, and the business is highly competitive.

    When prices rise consumers seek alternatives, a behavior economists call the “substitution effect,” which results in lower demand for the higher-priced product. In the case of restaurants, consumers have access to the ultimate substitution – they can stay home.

    The Seattle Times and Seattle Eater magazine have reported on some of the ways restaurant owners have tried to adapt – higher menu prices, cheaper, lower-quality ingredients, reduced opening times, and cutting work hours and firing workers. Sometimes these strategies, even in combination, are not enough. The business closes, workers lose their jobs and the neighborhood loses a prized amenity.


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    $7-8/hr might not be a "living wage," but is $0/hr a "living wage?"

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    Waiting for Free Agency acesfull86's Avatar
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    Starting April 1, all businesses must begin to phase in the wage increase: Small employers have seven years to pay all employees at least $15 hourly; large employers (with 500 or more employees) have three.

    Since the legislation was announced last summer, The Seattle Times and Eater have reported extensively on restaurant owners’ many concerns about how to compensate for the extra funds that will now be required for labor: They may need to raise menu prices, source poorer ingredients, reduce operating hours, reduce their labor and/or more.

    Washington Restaurant Association's Anton puts it this way: “It’s not a political problem; it’s a math problem.”

    He estimates that a common budget breakdown among sustaining Seattle restaurants so far has been the following: 36 percent of funds are devoted to labor, 30 percent to food costs and 30 percent go to everything else (all other operational costs). The remaining 4 percent has been the profit margin, and as a result, in a $700,000 restaurant, he estimates that the average restauranteur in Seattle has been making $28,000 a year.

    With the minimum wage spike, however, he says that if restaurant owners made no changes, the labor cost in quick service restaurants would rise to 42 percent and in full service restaurants to 47 percent.

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    Shift Leader thethe's Avatar
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    Everyone wants higher wages but consumers don't want to pay the higher bills that are needed to make that happen.
    Natural Immunity Croc

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    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
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    15 an hour is too high. There has to be a minimum wage, and I think it should increase over time, but 15 isn't plausible for any small business to run ideally.
    Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg

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    I <3 Ron Paul + gilesfan sturg33's Avatar
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    Minimum wage is so silly

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    It's OVER 5,000! 57Brave's Avatar
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    Go getchyur own damn food !

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    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    Minimum wage is so silly
    Not at all. You wouldn't make what you make at all without minimum wage. Go as people in 1900 about how great their lives were when they were making a dollar a day working 9+ hour days.
    Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg

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    Quote Originally Posted by zitothebrave View Post
    Not at all. You wouldn't make what you make at all without minimum wage. Go as people in 1900 about how great their lives were when they were making a dollar a day working 9+ hour days.
    Frankly, if someone offered me a $1 a day... I wouldn't work for them.

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    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    Frankly, if someone offered me a $1 a day... I wouldn't work for them.
    And if every job offered you a dollar a day you wouldn't work in a city and be a dirt poor farmer instead.
    Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg

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    Quote Originally Posted by zitothebrave View Post
    And if every job offered you a dollar a day you wouldn't work in a city and be a dirt poor farmer instead.
    Sounds like in your absurd scenario that even if I worked my ass off, I'd still be dirt poor.

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    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    Sounds like in your absurd scenario that even if I worked my ass off, I'd still be dirt poor.
    You think people back at the turn of the 20th century were lazy? Stop being obtuse. Those who're ignorant of history are bound to repeat it.
    Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg

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    Quote Originally Posted by zitothebrave View Post
    You think people back at the turn of the 20th century were lazy? Stop being obtuse. Those who're ignorant of history are bound to repeat it.
    I'm not being obtuse. A minimum wage is anti-freedom and I don't support it. I also believe it pigeon holes certain jobs to low pay.

    Again, if someone is only willing to pay me $1 a day, then I won't work for them. If you followed suit, and most other people, then the company would be forced to offer higher compensation.

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    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    I'm not being obtuse. A minimum wage is anti-freedom and I don't support it. I also believe it pigeon holes certain jobs to low pay.

    Again, if someone is only willing to pay me $1 a day, then I won't work for them. If you followed suit, and most other people, then the company would be forced to offer higher compensation.
    Or they'll collude and keep everyone at low paying jobs, like the did back at the turn of the century. People **** their pants when Ford had the gaul to pay his employees 5 dollars a day.

    Also minimum wage isn't anti-freedom, you have a choice to hire employees or not. Do you also think child labor laws are anti-labor? Do you idolize Foxconn and wish things were like China?
    Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg

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    Quote Originally Posted by zitothebrave View Post
    Or they'll collude and keep everyone at low paying jobs, like the did back at the turn of the century. People **** their pants when Ford had the gaul to pay his employees 5 dollars a day.

    Also minimum wage isn't anti-freedom, you have a choice to hire employees or not. Do you also think child labor laws are anti-labor? Do you idolize Foxconn and wish things were like China?
    It's absolutely anti-freedom.

    Let's say I'm an 18 year old in Seattle and want to work for a restaurant. They know I'm not worth $15, but think I'm worth $10. I'm happy to work for $10 because I want the money. Welp, I can't.

    Two consenting adults can't agree to exchange labor for currency. That is anti-freedom

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    Like I said, getchyer own damn food

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    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    It's absolutely anti-freedom.

    Let's say I'm an 18 year old in Seattle and want to work for a restaurant. They know I'm not worth $15, but think I'm worth $10. I'm happy to work for $10 because I want the money. Welp, I can't.

    Two consenting adults can't agree to exchange labor for currency. That is anti-freedom
    Ok, or they think you're worth 2 bucks an hour, there's no minimum wage, they won't offer you more than 2 bucks an hour so you go somewhere else and guess what they won't either. And you know that job that is paying people 10 an hour? They're not hiring because they've got enough employees. See i can play hypothetical BS too.
    Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg

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    Quote Originally Posted by zitothebrave View Post
    Ok, or they think you're worth 2 bucks an hour, there's no minimum wage, they won't offer you more than 2 bucks an hour so you go somewhere else and guess what they won't either. And you know that job that is paying people 10 an hour? They're not hiring because they've got enough employees. See i can play hypothetical BS too.
    Hypothetical? It's literally what is happening in the story above?

    A restaurant is valuing employees for less than $15. The employees have agreed to that. Now the minimum wage is saying they can no longer be valued at less than $15, and so those employees are no longer allowed to work. Consenting adults had agreed on a value that the government is no longer allowing. That is absolutely anti-freedom. If you support that, that's fine. But at least man up to it.

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    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    Hypothetical? It's literally what is happening in the story above?

    A restaurant is valuing employees for less than $15. The employees have agreed to that. Now the minimum wage is saying they can no longer be valued at less than $15, and so those employees are no longer allowed to work. Consenting adults had agreed on a value that the government is no longer allowing. That is absolutely anti-freedom. If you support that, that's fine. But at least man up to it.
    I think 15 an hour is absurd. And it's sad that businesses are shuttering their doors. But if you think minimum wage should be abolished, you're an idealist who doesn't have a grasp on how the world would work if the rich had nothing containing them.
    Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg

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    Quote Originally Posted by zitothebrave View Post
    I think 15 an hour is absurd. And it's sad that businesses are shuttering their doors. But if you think minimum wage should be abolished, you're an idealist who doesn't have a grasp on how the world would work if the rich had nothing containing them.
    hmmm... well in 2012 only 4.7% of hourly workers were paid minimum wages. And that makes up about 2.5% of the entire labor force.

    So if corporations are so evil that they will always pay you the least amount possible, what are the 97.5% of people who are getting paid more than the minimum doing right?

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    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    hmmm... well in 2012 only 4.7% of hourly workers were paid minimum wages. And that makes up about 2.5% of the entire labor force.

    So if corporations are so evil that they will always pay you the least amount possible, what are the 97.5% of people who are getting paid more than the minimum doing right?
    Again, do your research. I'm not gonna teach you where your history teacher failed about robber barrens and the whatnots.

    And you cna make like 8.30 in most places and still be getting paid more than minimum wage. And you won't work more than 30 hours at that job because they don't want to give you health care. And even if they did, never get over time. Even 1 hour of overtime is the devil!
    Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg

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