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Thread: Around Baseball 2015 Edition

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    Doens't matter how the contract is strcutred. Kersh/Max got AAV's of 30M. So Procelleo is getting paid 2/3 of what they are paid.
    How does yearly salary not matter? Again, explain to me why you would pay a 3.7 guy that has a K/9 of 5.....21 mil a year? You've yet to explain why it's a "smart deal" other than he's in his prime years......which, again, is dumb.
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    Easy answer...thats the market rate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    Easy answer...thats the market rate.
    Except it's not.
    The Atlanta Braves signed Nick Markakis for 4/45 - Never forget 12/3/2014

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    Shields just got the same money basically and is 6 years older.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    Shields just got the same money basically and is 6 years older.
    Shields is getting 18 mil per, so he's getting less BUT he's been the much better pitcher over the last 4 years.

    WAR last 4 years:

    Shields - 16.2
    Porcello - 10.3
    The Atlanta Braves signed Nick Markakis for 4/45 - Never forget 12/3/2014

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    You aren't paying for what a pitcher has done, at least I wouldn't. You pay a pitcher based on what you think they will do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRule View Post
    He's getting 8 mil less than Max and Ker next year........that's not smart, that's moronic.
    Actually, when you factor in time value of money and the structure of the contract, Porcello is almost making Scherzer money over the next 4 years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    You aren't paying for what a pitcher has done, at least I wouldn't. You pay a pitcher based on what you think they will do.
    Obviously but what makes you think Porcello will be a 21 mil per year player? His entire career he's been a 4 or a 3....nothing suggests he's an ace or worthy of 21 mil per year, nothing.
    The Atlanta Braves signed Nick Markakis for 4/45 - Never forget 12/3/2014

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    I like Porcello more than most, but I think he got the benefit of the doubt due to age. He's still only 26. I guess the Sox can afford to pay him, but to me he's exactly the type of guy you ride out the cheap years and then let walk.
    "Yes, I did think Aldrich was good UNTIL I SAW HIM PLAY. "- thethe

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    Quote Originally Posted by BRule View Post
    Obviously but what makes you think Porcello will be a 21 mil per year player? His entire career he's been a 4 or a 3....nothing suggests he's an ace or worthy of 21 mil per year, nothing.
    For starters, he is not getting paid ace money. Secondly his career is trending up is it not?
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    For starters, he is not getting paid ace money. Secondly his career is trending up is it not?
    He is getting paid ace money unless you think there are only 10 aces in major league baseball.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilesfan View Post
    He is getting paid ace money unless you think there are only 10 aces in major league baseball.
    Aces are going to start to get paid 25+ easy. Using past contracts in this new sports environment is foolish to gauge what market value is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    Aces are going to start to get paid 25+ easy. Using past contracts in this new sports environment is foolish to gauge what market value is.
    It doesn't matter what aces will be paid in 2-3 years. What are aces getting paid today? Who is using past contracts? We are talking about contracts within the last year and in some cases within the past 3 months. Is that too far back?

    Kershaw
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    Lester
    Greinke
    Hamels
    Shields (to a lesser degree)
    "Yes, I did think Aldrich was good UNTIL I SAW HIM PLAY. "- thethe

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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    For starters, he is not getting paid ace money. Secondly his career is trending up is it not?
    Porcello isn't getting paid ace money but I wouldn't say his carer is trending up. He has been a 2.7 or 2.8 WAR pitcher the last 3 seasons. That's good and pretty valuable. But the money he is going to be making suggests he will be a 3.5-4 WAR pitcher going forward. So the Sox are banking on him improving in his prime years. It's above market value but it's the Red Sox and they can afford it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    For starters, he is not getting paid ace money. Secondly his career is trending up is it not?
    What are you even talking about? He's a top 10 paid pitcher in baseball......he's getting ace money.

    As for his numbers, as I already posted...his stats last year are in line with his career numbers...other than a drop in ERA, which is meaningless.
    The Atlanta Braves signed Nick Markakis for 4/45 - Never forget 12/3/2014

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilesfan View Post
    It doesn't matter what aces will be paid in 2-3 years. What are aces getting paid today? Who is using past contracts? We are talking about contracts within the last year and in some cases within the past 3 months. Is that too far back?

    Kershaw
    Scherzer
    Lester
    Greinke
    Hamels
    Shields (to a lesser degree)
    Grienke signed in december 2012.
    Hamels signed in July 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    Grienke signed in december 2012.
    Hamels signed in July 2012
    What about the others?

    Also, when do you thing "baseball changed" and higher salaries were projected?
    "Yes, I did think Aldrich was good UNTIL I SAW HIM PLAY. "- thethe

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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    Grienke signed in december 2012.
    Hamels signed in July 2012
    This point doesn't help your case, if you're taking out contracts that are 2-3 years old, or older than Porcello is top 5 in pitcher contracts.
    Last edited by BRule; 04-07-2015 at 10:24 AM.
    The Atlanta Braves signed Nick Markakis for 4/45 - Never forget 12/3/2014

    "Klay Thompson > James Harden" - Heyward

    "Chris Bosh is the MVP of the Miami Heat" - Heyward

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    Porcello isn't getting paid ace money but I wouldn't say his carer is trending up. He has been a 2.7 or 2.8 WAR pitcher the last 3 seasons. That's good and pretty valuable. But the money he is going to be making suggests he will be a 3.5-4 WAR pitcher going forward. So the Sox are banking on him improving in his prime years. It's above market value but it's the Red Sox and they can afford it.
    Her is the ranking by average salary:

    Kershaw
    Scherzer
    Lester
    Verlander
    Cain
    Felix
    Greinke
    Hamels
    lee
    CC
    Tanaka
    Porcello
    Price
    Wainwright
    Sheilds
    Bailey
    Lincecum
    Weaver
    Sanchez
    "Yes, I did think Aldrich was good UNTIL I SAW HIM PLAY. "- thethe

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    Quote Originally Posted by BRule View Post
    This point doesn't help your case, if you're taking out contracts that are 2-3 years old, or older than Porcello is top 5 in pitcher contracts.
    No, thats not how this works. Do you deny that inflation is happening in baseball?

    There contracts being at 25 in reality helps my case because if they were FA's right now they would make more than 25.
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