Official Fire Fredi Thread

[VirginiaBrave]

That's what really gets to me about this argument. 95% or better of what Fredi does is right from Bobby's book. And it's not good enough The only leg the Fredi needs fired club has to stand on is the 2011 collapse.

[weso1]

Still not one thing listed that he does well.

I'm not asking my manger to give us an advantage... I'm asking my manager NOT to give us a disadvantage. Fredi is horrible

He has a .500ish record with this bunch. All in all that's really not that bad. I tried to point out that Chris Coghlan had good things to say about him, yet you feigned ingorance pretending to not know who he was. Pretty lame to pretend after you asked the question about former players not having nice things to say. He was voted amongst his peers as a top manager, which to me has some weight. He seems to be a good manager in the clubhouse. Most of his replacements I think you would wind up having the same criticisms. Trying to think of the great baseball managers out there. Who are they?

[thewupk]

That's what really gets to me about this argument. 95% or better of what Fredi does is right from Bobby's book. And it's not good enough The only leg the Fredi needs fired club has to stand on is the 2011 collapse.

Yeah. Bobby never backed his players just like Fredi.

[The Chosen One]

Have said this before, Fredi was trained under an old mold (Bobby). The days where player managers like Bobby, Torre, and even LaRussa are gone. Scioscia might be the last of that managing generation.

These days it's about managing egos more than anything. Bobby used to have a rule about players and facial hair (similar to Steinbreinner). Fredi's seem to let the guys grow as much hair as they want. Can't even imagine Gattis without his.

I do think a variable that's often overlooked, is Fredi has Bobby's mentality with a younger generation of players. A different generation of ballplayers with more entitlement than past generations of baseball players. Not saying every player is like that, but you aren't getting Jason Heyward/Andrelton Simmons well behaved guys anymore as frequently who respect the game and are students of the game. Bethancourt might be that hardworking humble mode if he keeps improving, so can Jace. That's where the "makeup" thing comes into play that we tend to make fun of because it isn't quantified. But these are personality traits that managers respect and it's why Fredi probably throws out someone like EY Jr out there over someone with 5 star tools like Maybin. To us at home it's a simple choice. Play the guy who can give you better numbers, but to someone in Fredi's shoes it's giving confidence to EY and helping Maybin grow up.

While I wish Fredi would run Bethancourt and Peterson out there everyday, sometimes it's good to let the kids sit and watch the game from the dugout to learn. Don't need to be on the field all the time to learn the game. Maddux and Glavine were teaching guys new things in the dugout on days they weren't starting just from observation.

Freddie Freeman and Huddy calling out Fredi a few years ago... that's not Fredi's fault. Just bad judgement from a veteran like Huddy and immaturity by Freeman (which we can still see in Freddie today).

Again, I think Fredi's bullpen management leaves a lot to be desired at times, but overall he really doesn't do anything that much different than his mentor.

The 2011 collapse, maybe Fredi overmanaged to get us in position early to have that wild card lead and the team ran out of gas (that's what it looked like to me anyhow). The collapse last year was just a ticking timebomb waiting to explode. I personally felt we overachieved all things considered. I do feel we probably should've been in the wild card game, but there were just enough holes in the team.

Joe Maddon is interesting. He's not a player's manager like Bobby or Torre. He probably is the modern day gold standard for managing but his methods are not entirely perfect either.

[VirginiaBrave]

Yeah. Bobby never backed his players just like Fredi.

That is why I didn't say 100%. Y'all blow that entirely out of proportion just because Fredi doesn't make a scene every time an umpire looks at one of his players cross eyed. If I were managing and one of my players were ejected in an argument he instigated he would sit the next night. No sense giving away three ABs just because you feel wronged on the first.

[The Chosen One]

I don't understand the hardon for people wanting Fredi to get ejected. He's gone out there before to protect players, but he doesn't get ejected.

MLB has really let umpires crack down on how much you can argue anymore. Bobby used to go out and argue without getting ejected too, until he really really wanted to get ejected it seemed like. Fredi doesn't have that quick trigger to get ejected and he probably shouldn't.

Bobby was Bobby. There will never be another like him. Even TLR and Torre didn't get thrown out at the rate Bobby did.

If players need to see their manager get thrown out to get motivated to play harder... well that speaks more on the players than it does the manager. These are grown men getting paid a lot to play a game, and if they need to see someone bust out testosterone and argue for 30 seconds to get pumped up on the field... well.

[sturg33]

Okay, I'll bite, though it's clear you know even less about baseball than you do about politics.

1. Like BC, his mentor, Fredi doesn't call out his players in the press. He doesn't use the press to try and motivate or shame. I'll bet that if/when he has harsh words he does it behind closed doors.

2. He's the first one in the clubhouse every morning and always the last one to leave.

3. He always remembers birthdays and kid's names.

4. He keeps a good, positive relationship with the press.

5. He doesn't get too high after wins or too low after losses.

6. He practices good motorcycle safety.

7. Unlike some of the nuts in this thread, he doesn’t make everything about him.

8. He's kind to bat boys and people in the service industry. (He's an above average tipper.)

9. He ALWAYS has his jersey tucked in.

10. He doesn't panic with starting pitchers and let's them try and work out of trouble themselves.

11. You don't read stories about him singing karaoke down at the strip club.

12. When it comes to handling the pitching staff, he does pretty much whatever Roger says.

13. He realizes that his job is really 90% political and social and only 10% baseball strategy. Thus, he DOES NOT call out his GM in the press, no matter what a douche he may be.

14. He does whatever his GM asks of him.

15. He doesn't go on blogs and pretend to be an expert on subjects he knows nothing about.

16. He gives young guys plenty of reps but doesn't leave them in so long that they assume they are now the starter, so they aren't suddenly surprised when they find themselves out of the lineup.

17. He uses his vets to show the rookies the way.

18. He's not afraid to call for a 'hit and run'.

19. He doesn't overuse his bullpen as bad as before.

20. He talks to Bobby Cox regularly.

Aww - someone get their feelings hurt? I'll take a look at this drivel more tomorrow

[GovClintonTyree]

We can do a lot better than Fredi and not much worse.

This is more of the unvarnished bias you inject into a lot of the threads around here, but you really have no basis on which to make this comment (similar to your Prado problem).

Maybe if you say it enough, people will believe its true. To be clear, I'm not buying what you're selling.

There's nothing wrong with Fredi. He does that job fine. It's not rocket science. The comments of his players and his peers are nowhere near what you and your posse insist is true.

Connie Mack, Joe Torre, Tony LaRussa, Bobby Cox and Casey Stengel all had one thing in common - when they had a ****ty team, they lost.

[Dalyn]

[goldfly]

Okay, I'll bite, though it's clear you know even less about baseball than you do about politics.

1. Like BC, his mentor, Fredi doesn't call out his players in the press. He doesn't use the press to try and motivate or shame. I'll bet that if/when he has harsh words he does it behind closed doors.

2. He's the first one in the clubhouse every morning and always the last one to leave.

3. He always remembers birthdays and kid's names.

4. He keeps a good, positive relationship with the press.

5. He doesn't get too high after wins or too low after losses.

6. He practices good motorcycle safety.

7. Unlike some of the nuts in this thread, he doesn’t make everything about him.

8. He's kind to bat boys and people in the service industry. (He's an above average tipper.)

9. He ALWAYS has his jersey tucked in.

10. He doesn't panic with starting pitchers and let's them try and work out of trouble themselves.

11. You don't read stories about him singing karaoke down at the strip club.

12. When it comes to handling the pitching staff, he does pretty much whatever Roger says.

13. He realizes that his job is really 90% political and social and only 10% baseball strategy. Thus, he DOES NOT call out his GM in the press, no matter what a douche he may be.

14. He does whatever his GM asks of him.

15. He doesn't go on blogs and pretend to be an expert on subjects he knows nothing about.

16. He gives young guys plenty of reps but doesn't leave them in so long that they assume they are now the starter, so they aren't suddenly surprised when they find themselves out of the lineup.

17. He uses his vets to show the rookies the way.

18. He's not afraid to call for a 'hit and run'.

19. He doesn't overuse his bullpen as bad as before.

20. He talks to Bobby Cox regularly.

[GovClintonTyree]

I don't understand the hardon for people wanting Fredi to get ejected. He's gone out there before to protect players, but he doesn't get ejected.

MLB has really let umpires crack down on how much you can argue anymore. Bobby used to go out and argue without getting ejected too, until he really really wanted to get ejected it seemed like. Fredi doesn't have that quick trigger to get ejected and he probably shouldn't.

Bobby was Bobby. There will never be another like him. Even TLR and Torre didn't get thrown out at the rate Bobby did.

If players need to see their manager get thrown out to get motivated to play harder... well that speaks more on the players than it does the manager. These are grown men getting paid a lot to play a game, and if they need to see someone bust out testosterone and argue for 30 seconds to get pumped up on the field... well.

It's fun, it takes pressure off the players and it changes the rhythm of the game. It's probably one of the best things Bobby did.

He sure did lose a lot of playoff games.
By the way, that seemed to piss off a lot of fans and posters for a lot of years.

How quickly they forget. You think Bobby was sainted on these boards as he wobbled through year after year after year of postseason failure? I'm surprised he got to retire. Pretty sure crucifixion was the preferred end for Bobby for at least half the posters on the Scout board.

C'mon, get real. If they fired Fredi and hired Joe Maddon tomorrow, people would be saying Maddon sucks. A majority, and quickly. Too smart, over manages, what's he ever won, overuses bullpen...

Everybody second guesses managers and coaches in sports, and since the best teams lose 40% of the time, there are plenty of failures to point out to buttress your argument. Torre was a ****ing idiot for YEARS until he got those Yankee teams. Now he's in the Hall of Fame.

Fredi's not any bigger Idiot than any of those guys.

[GovClintonTyree]

Oh, and if a few of these guys develop and the Braves get good again, you can count on him being here forever. Maybe a manager of the year or two.

Get ready, it's coming.

[thewupk]

I don't understand the hardon for people wanting Fredi to get ejected. He's gone out there before to protect players, but he doesn't get ejected.

MLB has really let umpires crack down on how much you can argue anymore. Bobby used to go out and argue without getting ejected too, until he really really wanted to get ejected it seemed like. Fredi doesn't have that quick trigger to get ejected and he probably shouldn't.

Bobby was Bobby. There will never be another like him. Even TLR and Torre didn't get thrown out at the rate Bobby did.

If players need to see their manager get thrown out to get motivated to play harder... well that speaks more on the players than it does the manager. These are grown men getting paid a lot to play a game, and if they need to see someone bust out testosterone and argue for 30 seconds to get pumped up on the field... well.

It's not about that. It's about biting the bullet and protecting the players from themselves. Do you think there was any chance in hell Bobby would have let Freeman get ejected last Monday?

[VirginiaBrave]

It's not about that. It's about biting the bullet and protecting the players from themselves. Do you think there was any chance in hell Bobby would have let Freeman get ejected last Monday?

Nothing could have prevented that. JH was looking for it...

[The Chosen One]

It's not about that. It's about biting the bullet and protecting the players from themselves. Do you think there was any chance in hell Bobby would have let Freeman get ejected last Monday?

Freeman would've gotten ejected and then Bobby would've came out to argue and got ejected also. Bobby wasn't always there to save the day in time.

[thewupk]

Nothing could have prevented that. JH was looking for it...

A manager paying attention could have.

[thewupk]

Freeman would've gotten ejected and then Bobby would've came out to argue and got ejected also. Bobby wasn't always there to save the day in time.

Not always no. But he did quite often.

Fredi rarely does any of this though.

[GovClintonTyree]

Nothing could have prevented that. JH was looking for it...

It looks to me like Freddie has a flair for pissing off umpires. Not saying Hirschbeck's not a dick, he is. But Freddie can be a dick, I think.

Maybe they brought Pierzynski in to mentor Freddie, not Bethancourt.

[GovClintonTyree]

A manager paying attention could have.

Mmm. I don't know. Rabbit ears. He was itching.

[Dalyn]

We can all clearly argue for and against Fredi. We've been doing it for ages. The fact is, though, that sometimes a relationship sours and it's not necessarily anyone's fault. Fredi has some strengths. He must, or, despite what it seems with Wren, the front office wouldn't keep him around. It'll work itself out. Either he'll do well with the 2017 team, or he won't and we'll have a new manager in 2018. At this point, I don't care. The team is what it is.