MINORS FINAL 5/3: What About Lipka?

[clvclv]

Maybe not a great hitter in a vacuum, but he can be a great hitter relative to his position.

And besides, we don't need Peraza to be a good hitter. We need him to be a great player. He does a lot of things well outside of slugging % to project as a great player.

Doesn't that kinda describe what everyone hopes Andrelton's developing into?

[clvclv]

You're quickly rising the ranks of most obnoxious posters.

Nobody crucified you. They simply disagreed with burning service time in a lost year.

But you get really defensive when anyone disagrees with you

BTW, do you seriously believe anybody gives two *hits where they rank on your personal "most obnoxious posters" list???

[Carp]

Would anyone be mad if he was starting at 2B next month?

I wouldn't be "mad." But I would rather not start his clock on a sub .500 club. I would enjoy seeing him nonetheless.

[Carp]

I don't think they're going to rush him by any stretch, but still stand by my earlier point. IF (and that's a big if) he keeps this up for an extended period, he will be knocking on the door so loudly that Hart & Company will have little choice but to consider giving him the shot they said they were going to give him during camp - particularly since he will have cleared the Super-Two cutoff. They've been pretty consistent in saying that they weren't going to hold anyone back when they forced their way into the rotation or lineup, and (just my opinion) they'll have seen enough at that point to feel comfortable enough to want them to be learning to make adjustments from Roger and Seitzer while facing the highest level of competition possible to see if they are capable of making those adjustments.

Peraza's situation mirrors Folty's in this way (IMO) - Hart mentioned it himself when talking to Chip and Joe during his start when he said (paraphrasing obviously) "he's incorporated the things we gave him to work on coming out of camp pretty successfully, and from the all the reports we've gotten we feel like he's ready for the challenge and will likely benefit from facing the higher level of competition in the long run".

Not exactly. Folty's clock already started last year didn't it?

[clvclv]

Not exactly. Folty's clock already started last year didn't it?

Not exactly - you're right. I mean in the sense that they were able to spend time with Jose during camp like they did Folty, and gave him (as well as Snitker and the Gwinnett coaching staff) specific areas they felt like they'd need to see improvement in before they were willing to call him up. I'd venture a guess that Banuelos is in a similar situation as well. Just my opinion, but I don't think they're concerned about the impact on certain players' clocks as much as they want to feel as comfortable as possible that they're ready for the challenge - not measured by IPs or ABs, rather that they're handling the areas they were asked to "tighten up" - because when they're called up they intended to put them in the rotation or lineup everyday for good.

[mfree80]

Not exactly. Folty's clock already started last year didn't it?

Was his MLB experience last year as a September call-up? If so, then I don't think it would count toward service time. Correct me if I am misunderstanding that.

[sturg33]

Actually that's not the case - it just happens to be certain "special" ones like you who expect everyone to roll over and agree with you rather than posting their disagreements. It is what it is - go back and read the thread closely.

There are certain posters here who "know" what they say they know with all kinds of certainty rather than admitting they're simply fans who have watched a lot of baseball and are passionate about the Braves. It seriously hacks some of them off when someone questions their qualifications. Some of us admit they don't "know" anything with any certainty - but defer to people who are paid to make those decisions because they're infinitely more qualified. There's not much to argue about when you simply state that something's your opinion and you might be wrong.

Which side of that spectrum do you fall on???

Easy there, cowboy. No need to get so defensive

[sturg33]

BTW, do you seriously believe anybody gives two *hits where they rank on your personal "most obnoxious posters" list???

Let me double check list...

Yeah - looks like you do

[Carp]

Was his MLB experience last year as a September call-up? If so, then I don't think it would count toward service time. Correct me if I am misunderstanding that.

Folty came up in mid August for the Astros.

[Carp]

Not exactly - you're right. I mean in the sense that they were able to spend time with Jose during camp like they did Folty, and gave him (as well as Snitker and the Gwinnett coaching staff) specific areas they felt like they'd need to see improvement in before they were willing to call him up. I'd venture a guess that Banuelos is in a similar situation as well. Just my opinion, but I don't think they're concerned about the impact on certain players' clocks as much as they want to feel as comfortable as possible that they're ready for the challenge - not measured by IPs or ABs, rather that they're handling the areas they were asked to "tighten up" - because when they're called up they intended to put them in the rotation or lineup everyday for good.

But still, their situations are different. And every team in baseball pays some concern to arby clocks, especially for the elite prospects. It could make the difference of an entire season in their prime. It's possible the Braves don't care. But I have my doubts. It's just good business sense.

[clvclv]

But still, their situations are different. And every team in baseball pays some concern to arby clocks, especially for the elite prospects. It could make the difference of an entire season in their prime. It's possible the Braves don't care. But I have my doubts. It's just good business sense.

The situations are indeed somewhat different in regards to the alignment of their service clocks. Where I think their situations somewhat mirror each other is that the current front office doesn't seem as concerned with their clocks as we all assumed they would be or we wouldn't have seen Folty yet. As you point out, the Astros started his clock last August, so if they were really big on delaying everyone as long as possible (no arguments at all that it would seem that delays would be higher on many of our lists - I also had said all along that I'd hoped we wouldn't see any of these guys until we had at least cleared their Super-Two cutoffs) that it at least appears they're more interested in instituting more of a meritocracy policy (as thethe suggests).

When trying to take a step back to attempt to find reasons that could make some sense, some of these promotions and/or potential promotions could be as much about clearing space at the upper levels of the system as some of the other guys keep pushing for steps up the ladder as well. It would've seemed to make some sense to promote Williams Perez before Folty given his good work to this point if they wanted to delay Folty's clock. That could conceivably still happen for Folty, Wisler, Banuelos, and Perez - say the other three string together a handful of good starts at Gwinnett and Folty struggles he could always be sent down with another list of things to work on and the hottest one of the others might be called up to take his spot (and get his feet wet).

I think the thing that they're going to struggle with at this point is setting up that merit-based system if they don't stick to it at some point. There have been enough impressive performances by several players at this juncture to (more or less) dictate that they start cutting bait with several players on the big club even if they don't get much of a return (if any). Doing so might ruin some of the platoons that have worked relatively well but given the starts several OFs have gotten off to, isn't it time to get rid of EY even if you don't get anything for him? KJ can platoon with Gomes, and they can call Eury Perez up to see if there's any interest in keeping him as a 4th or 5th OF moving forward. It's probably time to give Maybin the lion's share of the playing time in CF so they can decide whether they're going to want to keep him until the end of his contract (or see if they can get something for him that would likely be better than what they'd get for EY anyway). This would open a spot at Gwinnett for Mallex Smith or Lipka when they decide they want to challenge one of them more, which opens Mallex' or Lipka's spot for Peterson when they want to push him, etc..

The fact that the early appearance that the trades have worked out pretty well in our favor is both a blessing and a curse - we're now seeing several players who are starting to look like they may be worthy of midseason promotions without enough openings to give them all out. In several cases, it may be necessary to push some of these players into sink or swim situations so they can at the very least be in a position to move the ones we're most interested in keeping long-term up when they appear to be ready to take the next step. It's probably time to DFA Gosselin so they can get an extended look at Ciriaco, etc..

Things are starting to get pretty crowded at the upper levels at this point, and Hart & Company may need to start seeing some of these players challenged more because there are likely going to be quite a few tough 40-Man Roster decisions that have to be made by the end of the season - what to do with Minor, Cunningham, Terdoslavich, Elmer Reyes, Toscano, etc..

Assuming the goal is to have most questions answered by Opening Day 2017, they're likely going to want to see Mallex and others at least get some time with the big club next season so they aren't complete question marks when that time comes. If they do invest significant money this offseason (as it appears they will), they'll want to know the best places to spend it.