I don't know how much of that is jest, but it's a good point.Originally Posted by weso1
I don't know how much of that is jest, but it's a good point.
Still not sure how Fredi lost this series -- or even a game.
The starters can't get out of the 6th inning and there is no bullpen to get to the closer -- not sure what people expect the manager to do.
Yet give the pitching coach a pass
Yesterdays radio broadcast Sutton brought up Grilli pitched 2 innings on the road trip
Prikichi (06-04-2015)
Exactly, for all of the **** thrown at Freddy for pitching problems, Roger gets a pass on everything?
JohnAdcox (06-04-2015)
I don't think the players are the main issue here. They just suck. Can't fix that. Roger doesn't put said players in the game. Fredi does. Fredi's management of the pen is the issue.
THIS. The player's sucking so much, well, sucks. But, Fredi has to do his job and manage these situations better. Heck, at least manage the damage a little bit.
Last night: You keep the switch-hitting and solid defense playing Cunningham in; there is a good chance he drives in the run with RBI-ground/Sac-fly, we are up three runs. Then next inning the Dbacks get a lead off double off of a terrible misplay in the outfield where Gomes is located, that could be saved which would save at least a run and we are at the worst, tied. It's just small things.
Garmel (06-04-2015)
Let me understood
The players suck but the manager has to do a better job of managing the damage ?
They scored 8 runs yesterday ---
Fredi's 8th inning guy ( an MLB veteran with 50 saves 2 seasons ago ) threw a certain out into LF allowing the DBacks 9th run to score.
How was Fredi to manage that ?
The SP on his (what? ) 4 th MLB start blew a 6 run lead
He used his most effective reliever in the 6th to stop the bleeding. Leading to
an inconsistent RP in what was called on the radio "a high leverage situation"
Had FG not used said reliever the same people here would be all over the manager for not trusting a young pitcher. In "a high leverage situation"
As far as pinch hitting for Cunningham - he went with a veteran with a proven PH history. Not like he pinch hit Cameron Mayben or Nick Markakis
Hind sight says it didn't work. To my mind 9 out of 10 MLB managers given the same situation would have responded similarly
Let me repeat
the bullpen
the bullpen
the bullpen
young starters
young starters
young starters
Last edited by 57Brave; 06-04-2015 at 01:54 PM.
What pen?
They have used maybe 15 guys out there and it is the first week of June.
Roles have been switched and re-switched looking for a combination that works.
2 issues here.
1) The manager has very little influence once the game begins. Unless of course he used Shelby Miller in the 6th yesterday or pinch hit for Freeman with Gomes
2) Every game is not the 7th game of the World Series
I don't know how many times it has to be said, but Fredi is not the primary reason we're losing any of these games. I don't think anyone is suggesting he is. But you want your manager to at least help in you what little ways he can, and too often Fredi hurts us. That does matter.
Yes, Gomes hits lefties well and has done well as a pinch-hitter. But that was a decision that wasn't well thought out. We were up by 2 in the 7th. More important than offense at that point is run prevention. That is usually the point in the game where managers are subbing in defensive replacements. So it makes little sense to sub in arguably the worst defensive position player in all of baseball to a game like that, especially when Cunningham himself has a decent chance to come through offensively. Maybe not quite as good a chance as Gomes (though that's debatable given his recent success), but the potential uptick in offense there is not even close to worth the decrease in defense. And the decrease in defense hurt us.
So sure, that decision doesn't matter if we score 18 runs or if our starter shuts them down. But it does matter in a game like last night.
Hank Bauer once was pinch hit for by Casey Stengal after going 3 for 3. Bauer came back to the dugout and slammed his bat in the rack and headed for Stengal. Bauer was a WWII Marine Sgt and a certified bad ass. Stengal cut him off half way down the dugout telling him "you've had a nice day son but last I check there aren't too many 1.000 hitters in this league "
Like I said pinch hitting for Cunningham, though seemingly un conventional to an EA Sports gamers eye , was not how the Braves lost yesterday.
At that point in the game, Cunningham was 2 for 2
////
Like Casey was want to say, "you can look it up"
Last edited by 57Brave; 06-04-2015 at 02:13 PM.
Ok? Plenty of players have had 3-3 and 4-4 days. His previous success in the game does not change the percentage chance of him coming through there.
Again, I didn't say that taking Cunningham out was the reason we lost yesterday. I said it didn't help and actually actively hurt us. It mattered, and in a negative way. Again, it was shortsighted.
I'm not even talking about offensive impact. When you have one player, late in a close game you're winning, who is marginally better offensively but infinitely worse defensively, you don't sub that guy in. Because it decreases your chance of winning, even if only a little.
So knowing our pen is literally crap after Avilan, Martin, Johnson (at times), and Grilli why would you burn Martin for not even a full inning when he can go multiple and decide to bring in people like Cuniff or Masset. Do you think that was the correct decision?
He keeps Gomes in left numerous times when he's the worst outfielder we have and has been burned quite a few times late in games.
Fredi doesn't help the team win and doesn't put the palyers in the best position to suceed. It's not hard to see this.
Braves1976 (06-04-2015), Garmel (06-04-2015), jpx7 (06-04-2015), thethe (06-04-2015)
It seems to be hard for some people.
Braves1976 (06-04-2015)
Of course it does
The odds of going 3-3 are much much much less than going 2-3. Like 33.3%
I would argue letting Folty go into the 4th inning didnt help either -- I mean, we are splitting blond female hairs here
Hindsight tells you it didnt help. At the same time Gomes hits a 3 run HR or even a double there and Fredi is a genius.
Not sure what you want the guy to do. He plays it conservatively he gets ripped he gambles he gets ripped. He took a chance and it didn't pan out
Would you rather a manager like Redmond who just got fired for running the same people out there time after time after time?
To say Fredi is mis mangaing the bull pen is hilarious. 3 years ago, yes he badly mis managed the bull pen.
Last I looked, there is no one to mis manage.
In the course of this season, he has changed CF,2B,3B Catcher rotation , LF. The only positions he hasn't changed are 1B,SS and RF.
Take a look at the opening day line up and look at yesterdays.
Been watching baseball a long time and I dont think some of my fellow posters really understand what they are watching.
On top of that, and it is still only June, but this team plays hard for him. Not always well or perfectly but hard.
Last edited by 57Brave; 06-04-2015 at 02:50 PM.
Martin. Really? You just un made whatever point you are trying to make. See 10 game log below
http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/33135/cody-martin
The only way Fredi can help this team win is if he can get them from the 6th to the 8th inning on the mound
Last edited by 57Brave; 06-04-2015 at 02:50 PM.
Of course, because the odds of going 1-1 are much lower than going 0-1. But that's true of both Cunningham and Gomes in that situation. My point is, you're using the fact that Cunningham was 2-2 in that game as a detriment to the chances of him coming through again.
I definitely don't want my manager making decisions like, 'Who has the best chance to come through here for me? Definitely not Freeman, he's been hitting well lately and is due to come down at some point.'
I literally can not fathom the point you're trying to make here. Unless you think the game should be managed the way Casey Stengel did it 60 years ago in all phases.
Please, please tell me what you understand by watching the game that we morons can't possibly fathom?
The point that taking out a serviable guy that can go multiple innings and bringing in the worst guys imaginable instead.
1) I always thought that story of Stengel and Bauer funny. But insightful
2) Freddie Freeman has a career track record. Todd Cunningham, who might become a serviceable MLB player, has 49 career AB's.
3) A lot of the moves you see across the board were first used successfully by Stengel. Pitching specialists were not in vogue in his day. Some see that coming to a screeching end too
4) We could start with your over zealous appreciation of Cody Martin. I honestly hope you dont start a Bethencourt vs AJ. :)
The serviceable guy was getting his tits ripped
That ain't me.
And compared to everyone else he's an ace. Again he could go multiple innings instead of putting the stink of Cunniff and Masset in there.
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