Frank Wren's Tenure

[Knucksie]

Considering my post was directly below Cy's, I'm wondering where I instigated anything.

Sorry! Meant the good governor. Not always easy to see with the 'quick reply' feature.

[Knucksie]

* One of the mods was messaged before this reply.

It's purely speculative. And completely unfounded. And frankly sounds kinda racist. Why smear two guys with nothing to back it up? Well, why not?

What makes it a smear? Gee, if a starting pitching gives up 7 runs in under 3 innings, are we supposed to just pat him on the back and say, "good try"? I liked Jurrjens and like Teheran. My only hope is that anybody in a Braves uni does well, no matter where he originates.

However, since you forced the issue, it's certainly within the realm of possibility that misery loves company. Hopefully, this was not the case. Losing can rub off and become a disease.

Hey, I went to a Rome game last week and noticed that Braxton Davidson didn't give Albies a pound when Albies was on his way back to the dugout after scoring a run. Then he turned around and did it really halfheartedly and didn't even smile. Is there a rift in Rome's clubhouse? Is Braxton a cancer? Does he think that Albies is a little prick? I dunno. It looks suspicious. Anyway, I'm just passing along what I saw. It's purely speculative.

Whatever you're trying to say here has nothing to do with what was referenced.

And, fwiw, I did actually attend a game and saw exactly that. So I'm not, in fact, the mysterious man that you're at war (or WAR) with, the one who consumes advanced metrics and never watches actual games and has the temerity not to have been born early enough to remember the 80s and how bad they were.

A very good point! The boys sucked ass wind for half a decade. This is a matter of record. They announced before this season that they were targeting 2017. That should've been a good indication that they weren't planning to contend for at least this year and next? Instead, we still have forum members, who have to express their outrage that the team is currently mediocre. Is not asking for a little patience OK?

I'm not stalking you, buddy, its just that I've memorized your schtick

If you've taken the time to memorize my posting history, then that's one in the same.

because about half your posts are weird rants against the boogieman referenced above, who apparently is some kind of shapeshifter who takes a different form on different days. You unload with both barrels on whoever is your target of the day, and . . . it's . . . just . . . weird.

your posts are often worthwhile and interesting,

Such as what? If something catches your attention, then, by all means, let's discuss. That's kind of the reason for visiting. Mine sure isn't to hear somebody unload about the Texeira trade or the BJ Upton signing. Really, has there been any new ground broken?

It might be quite a few days between my visits. Do you not think it's weird that there are certain posters who constantly complain about every move by the FO? Isn't it weird how there are forum meltdowns after a transaction? Isn't it weird that at least one poster was hacked off that there weren't any transactions to discuss before November 1st? Etc. Etc.

Over at Scout, it used to be like getting the Wall Street Journal at my door step. Jordan and Mondesi were the designated whipping boys. Since you want to play the race angle, you'd probably find a grand total of *zero* negative posts from me on either of them. Jordan Rev. 1 was pretty damn excellent. Mondesi was really good when he was with the Dodgers. A low risk, small investment move with the Braves didn't work out. So what? It's not as if he was there that long.

After setting aside those and the ones bragging about being the Greg Maddux of the ignore feature, your posts are often worthwhile and interesting, which is why I've always avoiding kicking a stupid hornets' nest like this, being mostly a getting-along-type mother****er.

If you don't like my posts, put me on ignore. It's simple.

Awesome, I'm happy for you. I had an extremely positive and memorable encounter with an advanced statistic this one time, but I'm sure it wasn't nearly as satisfying. Anyway, you've brought the Julio/JJ thing up before, and you brought it up now. It was bull**** then, and it's bull**** now. You're a weirdly abrasive dude who comes off like you're both 13 and 72, simultaneously. It's kinda sadly hilarious for someone whose stock-in-trade is attacking other posters unprovoked to be complaining that he's being unfairly pursued.

Please show me when I ever attacked you. That you felt the need to involve your buddy is icing on the cake, because there's no recollection of ever bantering with him previously.

Again, it's pretty memorable, if only for the sheer repetition. Akin to watching an unmedicated schizophrenic stand on the same streetcorner and rant at passers-by day after day. It's not pretty, but eventually it just part of the landscape.

Let's not get carried away now.

Clearly.

Yeah, definitely. If he can step show me when we've ever had any kind of exchange, then it can be brought out in the open and dealt with accordingly. Nevertheless, same thing with him. He can just put me on ignore if my posts bother him.

No, I think that he and I and maybe a few others will sit around and plot your downfall, offended as we are by the nerve of a fella to go to a baseball game and post about it. Makes my blood boil just thinking about it.

You could say this about any number of posters. A while ago, somebody started a new thread about leaving the forum and complained about the "groupthink" (there's that word again) at this place and announced that he wasn't going to come back. Don't remember who it was, and certainly wasn't privy to what happened. He wasn't out of bounds though.

Twice I thought, "why bother?" and just backed out. The administrator messaged me to talk things out, and we will get together at Cooperstown this year. Interesting, because baseball, hockey and Formula One racing are the sports that interest me. Can't think of one time that somebody gave me a perplexed look, as if to say, "you don't know what the frig you're talking about" during a face to face conversation. In most cases, people usually enjoy the conversations.

I don't recall anything controversial. Just dumb and possibly sorta racist. But yeah, that's it.

For example, while scrolling through the Bethancourt thread (while at work), a post was noticed that somebody said that he was never good defensively at any level. To my mind, it's entirely too early to pass judgment, but in terms of overreaction, you can find far greater examples than anything that comes from my keypad.

I ignore him, too. He's really gotten to big for his britches and become quite a caricature of himself, but I'm pretty sure he gets laid on the reg—oh, wait . . . you don't mean HIM, you mean the guy who posts here by that name.

Sure, I'll tell him, next time I crash a meeting of Guys Who Cut And Paste From Fangraphs And Don't Watch Actual Baseball Games And Don't Remember the Pain of the 1980s Anonymous.

Knuckle on, my man.[/QUOTE]

[zitothebrave]

But 2015 is not the last year baseball will be played.

The moves this offseason were never made for this year.

I agree, weso's contention is we're as good of a team now and better down the line. I admit we're better down the line, I don't think were' close to equal now. That's the debate we've been kinda having.

[Braves1976]

Hey, Braves 1976: since you've been swinging on my junk now for a few months, did they put me on the Watch List over at Fangraphs because not everybody copies & pastes or is there just still massive butthurt because Jason got traded?

I wasn't even involved in this discussion and you brought me up in it. Get a grip, you've embarrassed yourself enough already.

[GovClintonTyree]

I wasn't even involved in this discussion and you brought me up in it. Get a grip, you've embarrassed yourself enough already.

I learned how to use ignore today.

[The Chosen One]

I get sad to see people here in our community fighting over trivial things.

Wish I could just deactivate the ignore feature.

[GovClintonTyree]

Sorry Heywood. Hopefully things will cool down. This, too, shall pass.

[Runnin]

I agree, weso's contention is we're as good of a team now and better down the line. I admit we're better down the line, I don't think were' close to equal now. That's the debate we've been kinda having.

Compared to this year's team, last year's now looks underachieving, dysfunctional and overpaid. Even though they may be less talented, I like this group a LOT better.

Okay, they're all overpaid. I just threw that in for rhythm.

[thethe]

Teams built like last year are more proned to large variations in performance. That is why this team is better and the team we are going to see moving forward.

[weso1]

No, because your debate is again based on best case scenario happening for the current group. Not realistic likely scenarios.

I'm not opposed to the rebuild in it's entirety. But you have to realize a whole bunch of **** has worked out better than expected. Maybin was a salary dump, to eat up part of BJ's deal. He's turned out to be a fine player, best case scenario. Peterson has outperformed his projections by a lot, best case scenario. When for all but Justin, the guys we shipped out are in worst case scenarios (aside from injury) so far. Your case is basically our current best case scenario is slightly worse than our old team's essentially worst case scenario.

No it's not like that at all. Both of our constructed teams have a couple of guys in best case scenarios and most everyone else is performing about what the usually do. For Every Shelby Miller you have Harangutan. For Maybin you have Rasmus, etc. So there's a balance there. And don't forget that the team I came up with has a lot more extra cash to spend. Your team used up the cash. I could completely fix the weakest part of my team by spending the money on arms for the pen. I gave an example where I could easily improve the team going forward. I think you're ignoring almost all of my salient points here. Again the WAR comparison is what it is. When I added Harang and Papelbon to my team I was up on you by 3 WAR!. 3 WAR. You honestly think your team going forward makes up that difference and surpasses it in any meaningful way? That's incredibly unlikely.

On paper going into this season I'd agree with you, but it's starting to look more and more clear that Maybin and Peterson are going to have solid years. They may fall back, but I don't think it's going to be as much as you think. Their performance is certainly unexpected, but at the same time it is what it is. You can't just ignore their performance and write it off by saying they won't continue to play good baseball. I think they will continue to be above average players at their position. Jace largely because of defense and Maybin because of speed and changed approach at the plate.

[Heyward]

Without reading all the thread.

Pretty obvious we had to rebuild or blow up last years team.

Too flawed and the farm system had little to no talent on it.

But in regards to Wren.

He was good in trades, and waiver pickups.

Big FA signings and the draft werent his strength.

[Heyward]

Hey, Braves 1976: since you've been swinging on my junk now for a few months, did they put me on the Watch List over at Fangraphs because not everybody copies & pastes or is there just still massive butthurt because Jason got traded?

You seem to call everyone out, must have some issues that no one knows about.

[Heyward]

The Uggla trade I was fine with, it was the immediate extension I was concerned with. I will give Wren credit, he was smart enough to stockpile right handed power before it became the highest premium in baseball. It's why we got such a big return for Gattis. But, Uggla was too risky, he was old and a 2B. 2B age fast (see Chase Utley, maybe the best 2B I've ever seen) ANd I don't think he bid against him self for the Beej. I think he overpaid to get him to sign. And I think the reason he did that was cause of the Lowe fiasco. If anyone forgets we wanted Burnett (I didn't want any of the starting pitchers from that FA, but the FO has money) and he was off the market so we went after Lowe and were forced to pay him 15M more than we wanted to because he preferred the Mets. After that fiasco Wren wanted to rush and get his guy. Of course he was burned becfause the Twins traded both Span and Revere and the CF market was oversaturated and Bourn signed for way less. It's a damned if you do damned if you don't kind of thing. If he waited and BOurn and Beej both signed. THe Twins could ask a fortune for Span. So on so forth. I don't hate him for the BJ signing. I didn't agree with it. I preferred Bourn or Span. But it made sense and wasn't a true massive overpay. 2M per year may be about right but when inflation and what not is factored in that's not really a big deal.

Chris Johnson extension I don't think was impulsive really. I think it was CJ wanted to stay a Brave and signed a contract that is below market for him. We basically traded our flexibility to cut him on a gamble that he would hit enough to make a ton on him or trade him for value. i'ts not a bad gamble.

I think we should have made a run for it in 2015. Traded CB and Sims for a pitcher, sign douchebag to backup Gattis, sign Rasmus, Keep Harang and go from there.

CF - Jason
RF - Justin
1B - Freddie
C - Gattis
LF - Rasmus (maybe switch him and Justin)
2B - TLS
SS - SImmons
3B - Johnson

What I like about that lineup is that you have 3 guys at the top who get on base, 2 of them have great power, then you have 2 pure mashers behind them, and then you hit the skids a bit. TLS should be a solid hitter. Simmons is a solid hitter, CJ when he's on is a solid hitter.

Rotation
Wood
Julio (though obviously this would stink this year)
Harang
Pitcher from trade
Perez

BTW I consider overall the positves we've seen from Perez to be better than the negatives from Julio in that scenario

So we clearly take a hit in a few areas. Obviously no Shelby hurts and Jace and Maybin have been pleasant surprises. But I do think that removing the scenery change, Jason would be performing better in ATL, Rasmus and Upton would be massive huge king kong upgrades over Mukaki and well Kelly Johnson and the turds we've been running out in LF. Gattis would smash our catcher production. So basically I see gains at LF (massive) RF (huge) and C (big enough) for maybe a slight loss in CF (Jason probably doesn't hit as well as Maybin has but is better in the field) and a big loss at 2B (TLS doesn't have the glove Peterson does) I think that more than overcomes our pitchign loss and that doesn't include the factoring in of keeping Kimbrel and Walden.

I do think we were a team who could have been in the playoffs with a few moves and ocne you're in the playoffs who knows what could happen. Wren probably would have been around this year too if he didn't make a move for Fredi's job. I think that stepped outside of JS and BObby's plan and for doing that he was ****canned.

Sure, we might/probably make the playoffs.

But after this year?

Jason, gone.

Justin, gone.

Gattis doesnt have as much trade value.

And the farm system is even worse.

[thethe]

Whether or not the decision to sell was right I think we can all agree it was a good year to sell.

[Knucksie]

I wasn't even involved in this discussion and you brought me up in it. Get a grip, you've embarrassed yourself enough already.

Your name keeps popping up. Anyway, cool! Then you can go do your thing.

[Knucksie]

I get sad to see people here in our community fighting over trivial things.

Wish I could just deactivate the ignore feature.

Remember, your couldn't have been intention wasn't to turn this place into just a relocated Scout.

[yeezus]

One last thing, apparently "yeezus" still hasn't gotten the hint. He's been on my ignore list for about a year and half. Unfortunately, his replies still activates my alerts. "Kimbrel's going to get 20MM/year on his next contract!" Somebody tell him to go get laid. For the first time.

i'm lost - where did i address this loon in this discussion? i haven't even been involved. you might need help, knucks, this is pretty pathetic.
i also don't know what you're talking about with kimbrel, but that's par for the course.
also my sex life is swell, but thanks for the odd interest.
but seriously go see a psychiatrist. mental health issues are no joke.