6/21/15: GDT - NY Mets @ Atlanta Braves

[thethe]

If you trust fWAR's evaluation of relievers (I definitely hate WAR for relievers), then the Braves are -0.2 below replacement with an average pen right around 1.7. Two games is solid guesstimate.

I hate WAR for pitchers in general, and especially for relief pitchers. I find it to be a futile effort to approximate what our record would be. We have lost two games based on Fredi keeping Teheran in the 8th inning because he simply can't trust our bullpen. How do you measure strategy adjustments?

Or the aggregation impact of more pitchers needing to go on a daily basis because we can't get 3 damn outs per pitcher?

[chop2chip]

Or the aggregation impact of more pitchers needing to go on a daily basis because we can't get 3 damn outs per pitcher?

Which is really odd because we have an above average setup/closer situation (I think).

I can't imagine what life would be like if The Bleeding Harts didn't scrap Grilli and Johnson off the bargain bin.

[sturg33]

Or the aggregation impact of more pitchers needing to go on a daily basis because we can't get 3 damn outs per pitcher?

Wouldn't that be reflected in the results?

[sturg33]

Which is really odd because he have an above average setup/closer situation (I think).

I can't imagine what life would be like if The Bleeding Harts didn't scrap Grilli and Johnson off the bargain bin.

I wouldn't call Grilli a bargain... 4-5M for a 38 year old reliever isn't cheap

[chop2chip]

I wouldn't call Grilli a bargain... 4-5M for a 38 year old reliever isn't cheap

4.2M for a closer who is on pace for almost 2 WAR is the very definition of successful bargain bin shopping.

Grilli certainly wasn't on the premium rack in the offseason.

[thethe]

How is it possible to not consider Grilli a bargain so far this season?

[sturg33]

4.2M for a closer who is on pace for almost 2 WAR is the very definition of successful bargain bin shopping.

Grilli certainly wasn't on the premium rack in the offseason.

Agreed... but he wasn't signed to be a closer. $4M for his is about all I'd pay considering his age and health risk. Not syaing it hasn't been a good deal.

Jim Johnson was a bargain

[sturg33]

How is it possible to not consider Grilli a bargain so far this season?

My bad... didn't stick to the script.

ALL HAIL HART

[thethe]

Agreed... but he wasn't signed to be a closer. $4M for his is about all I'd pay considering his age and health risk. Not syaing it hasn't been a good deal.

Jim Johnson was a bargain

Grilli and Johnson were signed because the Braves had eyes to trade Kimbrel all offseason.

[thethe]

My bad... didn't stick to the script.

ALL HAIL HART

You stuck to yours where every move is looked at as potentially bad first but need rigorous amount of convincing to realize how good they are.

[chop2chip]

Agreed... but he wasn't signed to be a closer. $4M for his is about all I'd pay considering his age and health risk. Not syaing it hasn't been a good deal.

Jim Johnson was a bargain

What I meant by bargain bin shopping is going after players that were considered damaged/broken/etc. that other teams didn't care to pay a premium for. I think signing a 38 year old reliever would qualify under that description.

[chop2chip]

Grilli and Johnson were signed because the Braves had eyes to trade Kimbrel all offseason.

Or they were simply decent values that would have worked even if Kimbrel were still here. Grilli didn't need the closer role to continue his 5+ year run of outstanding peripherals.

[thethe]

Or they were simply decent values that would have worked even if Kimbrel were still here. Grilli didn't need the closer role to continue his 5+ year run of outstanding peripherals.

I think the writing was on the wall with the Braves bringing in two relievers that had closer experience. The plans for the rebuild were made in November of 2014. No need for an expensive closer in a rebuild .

[chop2chip]

I think the writing was on the wall with the Braves bringing in two relievers that had closer experience. The plans for the rebuild were made in November of 2014. No need for an expensive closer in a rebuild .

Definitely possible. In hindsight it even appears obvious that that was the plan.

My point is that even if Grilli was pitching the 7th inning he would have justified the contract he was given. That thread would be a fun one to bump to read the responses everyone had at the time. I remember that one being panned (Jim Johnson was even worse).