Trade one Keep One

[zitothebrave]

A fun little exercise to kill time. I (or down the line someone else) picks a pair of players who are competing for a position. You say who you keep and who you trade and why.

To start it we'll go with the most obvious one, IMO.

Jace Peterson vs Jose Peraza

Before someone says we can keep both, we really can't neither hits enough for 3B. Sure we can do it, but it will be certainly disastrous for our offense to have a non-power not really great hitter at 3B. Build your case including present value, perceived value, etc.

[cajunrevenge]

First let me just say I don't subscribe to this theory that you have to get traditional offense from positions to be successful. Look no further than the starting position players of the Giants through their world series wins. Gregor Blanco was playing a corner outfield spot for 2 of those world series wins and he hasn't topped 5 homers a year.



I know most people will take Jace because he walks at a good rate and Peraza doesn't walk much but I would trade Peterson because I think he has more value. I think Peraza will hit for a better average and while he wont get on base as much he will be more of a threat when he is on base. That's if I have to choose. I would rather let Peraza break into the majors as a utility player. If he can play CF,LF,3B,2B and SS then he will surely get 450+ at bats a year that would otherwise go to replacement level players like Gomes, Callaspo, and EYJ.

[emk418]

I definitely agree that I don't believe in needing traditional offense from specific positions. I'm all about just having the best hitters in the lineup. I would hate moving Jace from 2B but we're desperate for offense. I would highly consider moving Jace to 3B now and calling up Peraza. Jace can easily move back to 2B if we deal Peraza in the future.

[nsacpi]

If all I had were their 2015 seasons I would vote for Jace. But even for young players you can get a better handle on their quality by looking at more than half a season of data. Then you have to adjust for age and level. When I do this I come down on the side of Peraza.

The above answers the question of which one I think will have the better career. Whether I trade one and which one depends on the return.

[clvclv]

I'll give you your first TWO "Trade One, Keep Ones"...

1.) Keep Peterson - don't "*uck with success. Move Peraza back to SS at Gwinnett for the next week or two to showcase him and trade him to the Padres for Rymer Liriano.

2.) Keep Jim Johnson - would be nice to have at least one veteran presence with closing experience to work with the kids the rest of the season. Trade Grilli and A. J. to the Cardinals for Stephen Piscotty and Sam Tuivailala. Randal Grichuk's likely off-limits even when Matt Holliday gets back - they're not likely giving Heyward $20 million plus per year, so Grichuk likely becomes their everyday RF in 2016. Pierzynski's the perfect fit as their backup C since he's familiar with most of their staff already, so he'd be great insurance in the event Molina needs more regular time off to keep him healthy for the playoffs.

Suddenly we'd be loaded with MLB-ready (almost ready at the very least) options in the OF as well - Markakis, Maybin, Perez, KJ, Piscotty, Liriano, Smith. Start shopping Maybin if someone's willing to knock your socks off - Perez can hold down the fort until Mallex is totally ready. Tuivailala and Folty give you two lights-out Closer candidates for Johnson to work with the rest of the season.

[goldfly]

baseball version of **** marry kill eh


guess that would be "keep till free agency, sign long term and trade" though in baseball terms

[auyushu]

First let me just say I don't subscribe to this theory that you have to get traditional offense from positions to be successful. Look no further than the starting position players of the Giants through their world series wins. Gregor Blanco was playing a corner outfield spot for 2 of those world series wins and he hasn't topped 5 homers a year.

You can get away with not having power at traditional positions only if you have power at non-traditional positions, which the Braves do not have. The Giants you are pointing out have Posey at catcher, which allows them to have less power at a traditional spot.

The simple fact of the matter is there has been no team in the past 30 years that has won a World Series with less that two 20 HR hitters in the lineup, and most have had at least 3 if not 4. The closest to come to not having that is the 2012 Giants, but even then they had Panda providing decent pop at 3B to go along with Posey and Pence. The last team to do so was the 1982 Cards, FWIW.

If we stick Peraza at 3B we aren't just having lesser power, we are having almost none at all. It's one thing to not have huge sluggers if you have okay power around the lineup (see the 2014 Giants, who had at least 10 HRs from 6 out of 8 positions), but it's quite another to be sub-10 homers in almost your entire lineup. In order to have a consistent offense you need to have balance. Right now we are 18th in baseball in runs scored while at the same time having the 5th best batting average with runners in scoring position. If our numbers with RISP drop at all we are quickly going to move into the bottom third of offenses.

Considering we are pretty much not going to get any HRs from 2B, SS, CF, and apparently RF for the forseeable future, we pretty much have to get some pop from at least 2 out of LF/3B/C to have a good offense.

All that being said, I'd personally go with both of them this year just to see what we have in Peraza, then you can decide who to trade based on performance.

[gilesfan]

You can get away with not having power at traditional positions only if you have power at non-traditional positions, which the Braves do not have. The Giants you are pointing out have Posey at catcher, which allows them to have less power at a traditional spot.

The simple fact of the matter is there has been no team in the past 30 years that has won a World Series with less that two 20 HR hitters in the lineup, and most have had at least 3 if not 4. The closest to come to not having that is the 2012 Giants, but even then they had Panda providing decent pop at 3B to go along with Posey and Pence. The last team to do so was the 1982 Cards, FWIW.

If we stick Peraza at 3B we aren't just having lesser power, we are having almost none at all. It's one thing to not have huge sluggers if you have okay power around the lineup (see the 2014 Giants, who had at least 10 HRs from 6 out of 8 positions), but it's quite another to be sub-10 homers in almost your entire lineup. In order to have a consistent offense you need to have balance. Right now we are 18th in baseball in runs scored while at the same time having the 5th best batting average with runners in scoring position. In our numbers with RISP drop at all we are quickly going to move into the bottom third of offenses.

Considering we are pretty much not going to get any HRs from 2B, SS, CF, and apparently RF for the forseeable future, we pretty much have to get some pop from at least 2 out of LF/3B/C to have a good offense.

All that being said, I'd personally go with both of them this year just to see what we have in Peraza, then you can decide who to trade based on performance.

Excellent take

[WaitingFor2017]

Trade Jace but you'd likely get more value by trading Peraza.

[Heyward]

First let me just say I don't subscribe to this theory that you have to get traditional offense from positions to be successful. Look no further than the starting position players of the Giants through their world series wins. Gregor Blanco was playing a corner outfield spot for 2 of those world series wins and he hasn't topped 5 homers a year.

Giants had power at C, 1B, RF, and 3B, not really.

[Heyward]

I'd like to see what we have in Peraza before trading him, and we need some kind of power bat minus Freeman going forward. You dont need 8 power bats, but need more than 1 player who can run into one.

[DirkPiggler]

Put out feelers on both, and trade whichever of the two that will bring back the most value.

My preference would be to keep Peterson, simply because he will still be able to get on base in years when his BABIP is down. If Peraza hits below about .270 you're looking at a sub-.300 OBP with no power sucking hind tit in your lineup. Plus I still think Peraza holds more value to other teams because of his ability to play SS and his speed.

[Russ2dollas]

Js was wrens boss when we signed no power cj to play 3rd.

I think we can play peraza at 3rd. But if we do then you have to get cespedes in lf and weiters at c. It backs you into a corner. That said....where is the 20 hr 3b coming from?

[Heyward]

I'll give you your first TWO "Trade One, Keep Ones"...

1.) Keep Peterson - don't "*uck with success. Move Peraza back to SS at Gwinnett for the next week or two to showcase him and trade him to the Padres for Rymer Liriano.

2.) Keep Jim Johnson - would be nice to have at least one veteran presence with closing experience to work with the kids the rest of the season. Trade Grilli and A. J. to the Cardinals for Stephen Piscotty and Sam Tuivailala. Randal Grichuk's likely off-limits even when Matt Holliday gets back - they're not likely giving Heyward $20 million plus per year, so Grichuk likely becomes their everyday RF in 2016. Pierzynski's the perfect fit as their backup C since he's familiar with most of their staff already, so he'd be great insurance in the event Molina needs more regular time off to keep him healthy for the playoffs.

Suddenly we'd be loaded with MLB-ready (almost ready at the very least) options in the OF as well - Markakis, Maybin, Perez, KJ, Piscotty, Liriano, Smith. Start shopping Maybin if someone's willing to knock your socks off - Perez can hold down the fort until Mallex is totally ready. Tuivailala and Folty give you two lights-out Closer candidates for Johnson to work with the rest of the season.

Highly doubt we'd get Piscotty for Grilli, and Stl doesnt need AJ.

[thewupk]

You can get away with not having power at traditional positions only if you have power at non-traditional positions, which the Braves do not have. The Giants you are pointing out have Posey at catcher, which allows them to have less power at a traditional spot.

The simple fact of the matter is there has been no team in the past 30 years that has won a World Series with less that two 20 HR hitters in the lineup, and most have had at least 3 if not 4. The closest to come to not having that is the 2012 Giants, but even then they had Panda providing decent pop at 3B to go along with Posey and Pence. The last team to do so was the 1982 Cards, FWIW.

If we stick Peraza at 3B we aren't just having lesser power, we are having almost none at all. It's one thing to not have huge sluggers if you have okay power around the lineup (see the 2014 Giants, who had at least 10 HRs from 6 out of 8 positions), but it's quite another to be sub-10 homers in almost your entire lineup. In order to have a consistent offense you need to have balance. Right now we are 18th in baseball in runs scored while at the same time having the 5th best batting average with runners in scoring position. If our numbers with RISP drop at all we are quickly going to move into the bottom third of offenses.

Considering we are pretty much not going to get any HRs from 2B, SS, CF, and apparently RF for the forseeable future, we pretty much have to get some pop from at least 2 out of LF/3B/C to have a good offense.

All that being said, I'd personally go with both of them this year just to see what we have in Peraza, then you can decide who to trade based on performance.

thethe's wet dream

[thewupk]

Peterson has been a surprise this season. Both with his offense and defense. Before hand Peraza was thought to be the 2B in waiting so having this discussion is always a plus. Options is a good thing.

That said I would echo what Heyward said in that I want to know what I have in Peraza before I trade him unless someone is knocking my door down to get him. It's hard to deny the success Peterson has had but it has only been 3 months. He looks good out there but if we trade Peraza we have to make sure we are getting it right with Jace. This is one of those decisions that a mid market team like Atlanta can't mess up.

[zitothebrave]

3B is weak, league-wide, it is what it is.

Wut? There are at a minimum 10 high quality 3B in baseball this year. Frazier, Donaldson, Machado, Arenado, Bryant, Moosetacos, Longo, Carpenter, Plouff, and Seager. Then the handful of really good 3B like Lawrie, Escobar, Prado, Beltre, Freese, Harrison, Valbuena.

There are so many good 3B, that Pablo sandoval is 20th in WAR (because of defense primarily) I can't think of a time in baseball when 3B has been stronger.

[Pugfan]

If this team turns into the 1985 Cardinals stealing crazy amount of bases with good on base skills and playing gold glove defense at many positions it could work. That 1985 Cardinals team was one of the most entertaining teams of all time, imo.

[Heyward]

Wut? There are at a minimum 10 high quality 3B in baseball this year. Frazier, Donaldson, Machado, Arenado, Bryant, Moosetacos, Longo, Carpenter, Plouff, and Seager. Then the handful of really good 3B like Lawrie, Escobar, Prado, Beltre, Freese, Harrison, Valbuena.

There are so many good 3B, that Pablo sandoval is 20th in WAR (because of defense primarily) I can't think of a time in baseball when 3B has been stronger.

Alright then, i was wrong with that.

Who do we get for 3B then, that has power, realistically, Donaldson aint happening.

Freese is a FA this offseason if we want to sign him a prove it type of deal, shouldnt command a ton of money.

[chop2chip]

Alright then, i was wrong with that.

Who do we get for 3B then, that has power, realistically, Donaldson aint happening.

Freese is a FA this offseason if we want to sign him a prove it type of deal, shouldnt command a ton of money.

In a perfect world, Rio Ruiz.