And he is giving the Braves tremendous value with his pitching. I know the original plan was to trade all these pieces and it still may be. But, based on the results I think a re-evaulation should be made. The end result might be the same sell-off but I don't think we should be surprised if the team stands pat.Originally Posted by Dalyn
Natural Immunity Croc
The only argument I'm willing to make for keeping Grilli is that his departure without a clear, immediate successor (assuming Jimmy also goes) in the wings might put the bullpen in an uncomfortable state of flux. But, if Vizcaino looks up to the task -- then sayonara Melted Cheese Man.
It wouldn't surprise me. Standing pat would fit the negative side of the Mukaki Rebuild. I sure hope Hart doesn't make that mistake.
I actually think him leaving to create that void is an important step toward fielding a competitive team in 2017. You don't want your first year without him to BE 2017.
jpx7 (07-08-2015)
The rebuild that has seen the farm system rise to a top 5-10 status with rumors of the Braves being locks to get the best international prospect in the last 10-15 years?
What more could be asked for? Why are we completley discounting the intrinsic value of being a playoff team in terms of future revenues?
Natural Immunity Croc
I specifically said the NEGATIVE side of the Mukaki Rebuild. Clearly that means there is a positive side, which you have outlined above. We picked up a few guys trying to take a chance and get some production so we could get a good return to HELP the rebuild. To not do that now because we are a few games better than expected at this point would be asinine. But it would fit the negative side of the rebuild.
jpx7 (07-08-2015)
I guess that presupposes the replacement comes from within the organization. If the Braves have designs to trade for a closer (Kimbrel) or sign somebody like Chapman/Storen after 2016 that would seem like a smaller issue. Nevertheless, interesting point.
Dalyn (07-08-2015)
I honestly think we're going to try Feliz there next year. He is having a terrible year, which I actually think increases the chance that we'll go after him.
I wouldn't be opposed to that at all.
The primary objectives have been met though. Trading Grilli is probably not going to change the future of the franchise all that much. However, having an above average closer this year and next increases the chances of making the postseason that will absolutely have an impact on the future. Just my opinion.
Natural Immunity Croc
Same here.
Do you really think Grilli can continue to perform at this level for the life of the contract? I don't even think he can continue for the rest of the year. And if he DOES continue to play at this level, do you think the team will drop him in 2017? Of course not. We'll have a 40-year-old closer for our dream team.
His stuff looks pretty good to me. He's been good since 2011. His velocities are up this year.
I don't see these indicators that this is his last year of good pitching. His arm doesn't have hte mileage you would expect of a 38 year old pitcher. He may in fact have another 2-3 years of good pitching still.
Natural Immunity Croc
The question is, what can they get for Grilli in trade? If it's someone with a decent chance of helping the club in the future then absolutely trade him. But don't trade him just because that's part of the plan. The return has to be something of decent value.
For example, I wouldn't give Grilli away for a similar package that the Braves gave the Cubs for James Russell last year. The return doesn't have to be a top ten prospect by any stretch, but it does need to be someone that at least has the upside potential of being an everyday player or solid pitcher at some point in the next few years. If they can't get that kind of return then Grilli will hold more value to the team as a closer or set up man on a potential contending team next year than he does as a trade chip.
Johnson on the other hand should go as soon as his value is maximized - probably at or just before the deadline if he keeps pitching well. Same for anyone else not under contract for next year.
I'm not giving Grilli away, but he should go.
Real contenders need pen help. He's got a second year at reasonable money on his deal. We have the money to pay the rest of his money this year in return for a better prospect. He's 38 and not part of our future plans.
If you think closer is important, than you want that guy to prove he's good in ATL in 16 so you are ready for 17.
We have Viz, Folty, S Simmons, Winthrow, and a bunch of college pitchers we just drafted to fill that role.
It's supposed to be a seller's market. Use it. We have issues at LF, 3B, and C. We lack power options in the minors. Could use some more depth. Fill some needs with Grilli, Johnson, KJ, Uribe, AJ etc.
He had a bad year last year (and missed most of the second half of 2013 and didn't look good when he returned), largely because he got tired before the break and at the end of the year. That's his age catching up with him. It's likely the same will happen this year. Does he have 2-3 years of good pitching left? Possibly. Is that possibility worth not getting a good return for him and going into 2017 with either a new closer or a 40-year-old one?
Last edited by Dalyn; 07-08-2015 at 10:12 AM.
Of course. That's why I keep saying a good return. He's in the perfect position to provide that right now.
Ask me again on August 1.
Hopefully the team can at least go 3-2 the rest of the week and at least be 45-44 at the break. I'd like to see them above .500, but at the same time, I'd like to see Grilli, Johnson, Pierzynski, Kelly Johnson, and Gomes in different uniforms on August 1st. There will likely be no takers for Gomes.
The "misses" like Gomes, Cahill, Stults, etc are the reasons you have to capitalize on the hits.
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