REAL FOOTBALL Thread

[zitothebrave]

LMAO I love you guys.
Pettigrew was the first to initiate contact with the ball in the air. He pulled Hitchens' facemask AND grabbed his shoulders. Face guarding is not a penalty in the NFL. That's what the flag was thrown for, and that's why it was picked up. Stafford also threw the ball right at Hitchens' back. Like, he just pegged him in the back. To announce the penalty and then pick it up is bizarre for sure. But the call was right. That was no more defensive PI than it was offensive. Pettigrew had no chance at that ball with Hitchens' in front of him, it was thrown so poorly. Hitchens was held on the play as much, if not more, than he held. I can point to plenty of poor calls against the Cowboys.

The Cowboys totally outplayed them in the 2nd half. After the 1st half Romo was great.

He did all that while playing the ball though. Worst case scenario if you call hands to the face you call DPI, penalties offset. Going off a hunch, the reason the flag was picked up was probably because after the fact the refs decided the ball wasn't catchable because of the defenders position to the pass.

What's wrong was that they called the foul then reversed it. I have never seen that happen with a penalty in all the football games I've watched. That's what's wrong with the situation. I've seen flags picked up but the refs powwow then pick it up and say there was no foul for X on the play. That's poor officiating.

[zitothebrave]

Well, that reverse view actually tells a better story.

I guess I could see where the ref was coming from.

May be wrong, but i'm pretty sure the ref who would have seen the facemask (back judge) was the one who threw the flag for DPI and told the head ref.

Here's an article that sums up the issue with that play

http://deadspin.com/if-you-pick-up-a...-th-1677486796

[gilesfan]

Cut and dry

[thewupk]

Cut and dry

So the hands to the face doesn't matter? If anything it should have been offsetting penalties. But let's not act like one play caused the outcome of the game. There was poor officating throghout on both sides. The Lions played horrible in the 2nd half. They should blame themselves for only scoring 3 points.

[zitothebrave]

Actually there were 4 fouls on the play.

1. Holding on the defense
2. Hands to face on offense
3. DPI defense
4. Dez Bryant running on the field (Unnecessary Douchebaggery?)

[sturg33]

So the hands to the face doesn't matter? If anything it should have been offsetting penalties. But let's not act like one play caused the outcome of the game. There was poor officating throghout on both sides. The Lions played horrible in the 2nd half. They should blame themselves for only scoring 3 points.

Could we have won despite that play? I suppose yes - although it was painfully clear we were playing both the Cowboys and the league.

Would we have won if the play was called correctly? (DPI + Unsportsmanlike Conduct) - I think 99% sure.

That play changed the entire game.

[thewupk]

Could we have won despite that play? I suppose yes - although it was painfully clear we were playing both the Cowboys and the league.

Would we have won if the play was called correctly? (DPI + Unsportsmanlike Conduct) - I think 99% sure.

That play changed the entire game.

If thay play was called correectly it would have been offsetting penalties plus Dez's dumb play. How different would the game be if all the bad calls were called correctly? Too many unknowns. What we do know is the Lions scored 3 points in the 2nd half and had 3 turnovers.

[Oklahomahawk]

40Whiner fans,

Your thoughts on this?

[chop2chip]

If thay play was called correectly it would have been offsetting penalties plus Dez's dumb play. How different would the game be if all the bad calls were called correctly? Too many unknowns. What we do know is the Lions scored 3 points in the 2nd half and had 3 turnovers.

Plus I can't feel bad for a team that doesn't go for it 4th and 1 on the opponents side in the 4th quarter.

[yeezus]

Actually there were 4 fouls on the play.

1. Holding on the defense
2. Hands to face on offense
3. DPI defense
4. Dez Bryant running on the field (Unnecessary Douchebaggery?)

Also holding on the offense (pulled his shoulder pad).
The Dez thing: Those calls are completely discretionary. A lot of refs throw a flag there, this one didn't. Non-issue.

[zitothebrave]

Also holding on the offense (pulled his shoulder pad).
The Dez thing: Those calls are completely discretionary. A lot of refs throw a flag there, this one didn't. Non-issue.

Receivers cannot be called for holding when playing the ball, only OPI, his foul was getting the facemask. And those calls aren't discretionary, it's very letter of the law, players and coaches aren't allowed to run on the field and argue calls. It's very letter of the law. There's no grey area of (well was he actually on the field) etc.

[yeezus]

The roughing the punter call called on the Cowboys but not on the Lions.
The BS OPI call on Williams when he was pushed into the defender, and the same call not made on Detroit.
Lions got away with plenty of holding, defensive and offensive.
Suh not suspended as his dirty, crying ass should have been. Fake ass crying, by the way.
The Hitchens play was not even PI. Look at the gif below. Please tell me where he interfered. Please tell me a facemask should not be called.
The only mistake the refs made was announcing the penalty too early. The ref with the best view came in and said there was not enough contact for PI. The flag was thrown for face guarding, which is not a penalty.

http://i.imgur.com/kitYJCd.gifv

[yeezus]

Receivers cannot be called for holding when playing the ball, only OPI, his foul was getting the facemask. And those calls aren't discretionary, it's very letter of the law, players and coaches aren't allowed to run on the field and argue calls. It's very letter of the law. There's no grey area of (well was he actually on the field) etc.

lol fine then, OPI AND facemask. He did both.
Those calls are discretionary the same way techs are in b-ball. Some refs have a shorter fuse. That had no impact on an actual play so it's hilarious to fall back on. There was no PI on Hitchens, the call was correct. The Lions pissed away plenty of opportunities. Stafford had his chances and didn't get it done.

[zitothebrave]

I saw no holding of the shoulder pads of any significance.

And the NFL has set a "standard" of rules, some rules are discretionary some aren't. I've never seen that one be discretionary. I've never seen a player run on the field to argue in the way Dez did and it not get called. Find me examples of it not being called or I'm just gonna call you out for bull****.

[yeezus]

I saw no holding of the shoulder pads of any significance.

And the NFL has set a "standard" of rules, some rules are discretionary some aren't. I've never seen that one be discretionary. I've never seen a player run on the field to argue in the way Dez did and it not get called. Find me examples of it not being called or I'm just gonna call you out for bull****.

"Then there’s the Dez Bryant situation. He wasn’t flagged for coming onto the field to argue the initial call. Austin said that, if Bryant left the field quickly, the inclination would be to not penalize him. Which meshes with the explanation from Sunday night that, in the heat of the moment, the officials gave Bryant a little leeway."

To make that call there would be a joke. It had no effect on the game play. He should not have done it. But it's silly to be upset about that being let go.

[zitothebrave]

The roughing the punter call called on the Cowboys but not on the Lions.
The BS OPI call on Williams when he was pushed into the defender, and the same call not made on Detroit.
Lions got away with plenty of holding, defensive and offensive.
Suh not suspended as his dirty, crying ass should have been. Fake ass crying, by the way.
The Hitchens play was not even PI. Look at the gif below. Please tell me where he interfered. Please tell me a facemask should not be called.
The only mistake the refs made was announcing the penalty too early. The ref with the best view came in and said there was not enough contact for PI. The flag was thrown for face guarding, which is not a penalty.

http://i.imgur.com/kitYJCd.gifv

The ref with the best view didn't come in and call it, the back judge threw the flag, the headlinesman who was on the other end of the field was the one saying it was face guarding, the line judge who was closest to the play wasn't involved by Morelli's own account. Neither were whichever side judge would have been in the secondary.

He interfered by making contact withthe receiver and inhibiting him from making a play on the ball before the ball got there. The only reason you don't call DPI is if you think the ball isn't catchable. That's it. Nice use of one angle, you don't see if in that gif because his arm is hidden by Pettigrew's pads.

Stealing from above.



And again the most egregious issue isn't a non-call. It's that they announced the call, then picked up the flag, something I've never seen happen ever in my years of watching football.

[yeezus]

And please, let's no ignore how awful that throw was. The WR could not have caught that ball in any way, contact or not. It wasn't "uncatchable" in the traditional sense, but it was completely uncatchable the way it was thrown. He threw it right at his back. Hitchens didn't even jump. It was just pegged at his back. The refs would have been bailing Stafford out of a horrible throw. The Lions could have won this game with or without that non-call. Make all the excuses you want, Detroit, but see yah.

[zitothebrave]

"Then there’s the Dez Bryant situation. He wasn’t flagged for coming onto the field to argue the initial call. Austin said that, if Bryant left the field quickly, the inclination would be to not penalize him. Which meshes with the explanation from Sunday night that, in the heat of the moment, the officials gave Bryant a little leeway."

To make that call there would be a joke. It had no effect on the game play. He should not have done it. But it's silly to be upset about that being let go.

So what that it had no effect on the gameplay. The NFL made a rule to protect refs from harassment of players and coaches from the sidelines, if you don't like the rule then so be it.

Here's a quote from Dungy on it.

"To me," Dungy said on "The Dan Patrick Show," Dez Bryant's actions were "worse than the pass-interference call. You can debate the pass-interference call. The helmet rule is plain. And for an official to not have the courage to call that. Dez Bryant is not on the field at the time. He is an offensive player not coming in as a substitute. There is no reason he is out there other than to argue the call with no helmet on. Every official should have thrown a flag at that point. At the very least it should have been another 15-yard penalty. And there is no way you can justify not calling that."



Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/dez-b...#ixzz3NyCITMaV

[yeezus]

The ref with the best view didn't come in and call it, the back judge threw the flag, the headlinesman who was on the other end of the field was the one saying it was face guarding, the line judge who was closest to the play wasn't involved by Morelli's own account. Neither were whichever side judge would have been in the secondary.

He interfered by making contact withthe receiver and inhibiting him from making a play on the ball before the ball got there. The only reason you don't call DPI is if you think the ball isn't catchable. That's it. Nice use of one angle, you don't see if in that gif because his arm is hidden by Pettigrew's pads.

Stealing from above.



And again the most egregious issue isn't a non-call. It's that they announced the call, then picked up the flag, something I've never seen happen ever in my years of watching football.

That picture is AFTER Hitchens is pulled by the face mask in to Pettigrew BY PETTIGREW HIMSELF.
It was a piss-poor throw, a face mask and grabbing back-and-forth that pulled the defender into HIMSELF. I've never seen a call announced and then taken away either, no one has. That doesn't mean it wasn't the right call.

[zitothebrave]

And please, let's no ignore how awful that throw was. The WR could not have caught that ball in any way, contact or not. It wasn't "uncatchable" in the traditional sense, but it was completely uncatchable the way it was thrown. He threw it right at his back. Hitchens didn't even jump. It was just pegged at his back. The refs would have been bailing Stafford out of a horrible throw. The Lions could have won this game with or without that non-call. Make all the excuses you want, Detroit, but see yah.

I'm fine if they didn't make the call for that reason, but they made the call, then changed their mind. Something I've never seen happen. I've seen flags get picked up, but never after an announcement, and it's in the playoffs the biggest stage of them all. Class A ****up.