Mallex Smith

[nsacpi]

Do we really develop pitchers better? Heyward, McCann, Freeman, Gattis, Furcal, Salty, Andrus, Escobar, etc? I don't think we've developed pitching that matches that.

Yeah. This whole thing about us being better at developing pitchers is greatly overblown. You can add Prado and Simmons to the list.

[yeezus]

How on earth are Gattis, Salty, and Andrus thrown into that mix?
In that case, we can throw Minor and Hanson into the pitching side.
Gattis has been a negative on offense all year.

[yeezus]

Yeah. This whole thing about us being better at developing pitchers is greatly overblown. You can add Prado and Simmons to the list.

Simmons isn't a good hitter, though.

[sturg33]

How on earth are Gattis, Salty, and Andrus thrown into that mix?
In that case, we can throw Minor and Hanson into the pitching side.
Gattis has been a negative on offense all year.

Name the pitchers that we have developed that mat the list of hitters.

I can think of Teheran and Wood. We have a few young guys now but too early to make a judgement on them

[thethe]

Do we really develop pitchers better? Heyward, McCann, Freeman, Gattis, Furcal, Salty, Andrus, Escobar, etc? I don't think we've developed pitching that matches that.

We waited too long to trade the pitching that was developed well.

[sturg33]

We waited too long to trade the pitching that was developed well.

Not this time! We got a stud 30 year old for our young lefty

[yeezus]

Name the pitchers that we have developed that mat the list of hitters.

I can think of Teheran and Wood. We have a few young guys now but too early to make a judgement on them

Well, if we're throwing Salty, Andrus, and Gattis into the "good hitters" list, we can throw the following pitchers:

Hanson
Medlen
Beachy
Minor

Who were more productive as pitchers longer than any of those guys were as hitters. Andrus is a decent position player, but he's not some tough-to-develop player. I thought we were talking about good hitters, not just any position player in general. We could list plenty of comparable pitchers to those three.

[thethe]

Let's talk about the three headed monster relief core as well.

[yeezus]

Let's talk about the three headed monster relief core as well.

Yeah, who were each individually better than Gattis and Salty. And Andrus was heavy defense, not really hitting so much.

[smootness]

I'm not an insider and don't know what the alternatives were. But I can't help but note that some teams did find a way to acquire premium young hitting talent. The Cubs' trade for Addison Russell being a prime example. Another example would be the Blue Jays picking up Josh Donaldson.

Woah woah woah. I'm open to the idea that the Braves may have misplayed the market some, but I'll wait to see what we do this offseason.

But using these two deals doesn't really hold up. The Cubs completely fleeced the A's, no one doesn't believe that, and it was clear at the time. The A's just made an awful trade. The likelihood of someone else doing that for us is not great.

And the two best pieces given up for Donaldson were hitters. Based on their numbers, it wasn't crazy to think Lawrie could have ended up with numbers approaching Donaldson's, and they got Barreto, who is ranked higher than Albies and is another good year away from being a top-10 prospect.

And if you dislike the package the A's got for Donaldson, then perhaps it shows how tough it was to get good value when selling a good bat, even when they have much more control left than ours did.

[yeezus]

Woah woah woah. I'm open to the idea that the Braves may have misplayed the market some, but I'll wait to see what we do this offseason.

But using these two deals doesn't really hold up. The Cubs completely fleeced the A's, no one doesn't believe that, and it was clear at the time. The A's just made an awful trade. The likelihood of someone else doing that for us is not great.

And again, I also think it's important to point out that Wren was the GM when the Samardzija trade was made, so using it as a critique of the current FO is flimsy at best.

[gilesfan]

Let's talk about the three headed monster relief core as well.

Kimbrel- 12.2 WAR
Venters- 3.0 WAR
Medlen- 5.5 WAR
Beachy- 4.8 WAR
Minor- 6.9 WAR
Teheran- 6.3 WAR

McCann- 33.1 WAR
Heyward 24.8 WAR
Freeman 13.4 WAR


Feel free to add to the list, but I don't think the numbers are going to come anywhere close.

[thethe]

The discrepancy in WAR is based on the playing time. The quality of pitcher we have developed is on par but they are getting hurt too quickly. That's why I think they traded Wood.

[gilesfan]

[/SIZE]

The discrepancy in WAR is based on the playing time. The quality of pitcher we have developed is on par but they are getting hurt too quickly. That's why I think they traded Wood.

So players that play more are worth more?

Alex Wood is significantly better than the Hanson/Jurrjens/etc group. Its not even really close.

[yeezus]

The discrepancy in WAR is based on the playing time. The quality of pitcher we have developed is on par but they are getting hurt too quickly. That's why I think they traded Wood.

Right, it's not goal-post moving. Before it was pure volume, and Salty was on the list. Now it's total WAR.

The fact that pitchers get hurt so often is a great argument for stocking up on them.

[yeezus]

Wood's career thus far has been about on par with what Tommy did for us for a few seasons.

[thethe]

[/SIZE]

So players that play more are worth more?

Alex Wood is significantly better than the Hanson/Jurrjens/etc group. Its not even really close.

Yup and we developed him and hopefully made the right decision on the timing to trade him.

Using WAR is misleading to the original argument though and I think you knownthis.

[sturg33]

The discrepancy in WAR is based on the playing time. The quality of pitcher we have developed is on par but they are getting hurt too quickly. That's why I think they traded Wood.

Good thing we traded him for a player who has a miraculous history of good health

[gilesfan]

Yup and we developed him and hopefully made the right decision on the timing to trade him.

Using WAR is misleading to the original argument though and I think you knownthis.

Because you believe developing relief pitchers is as valuable as developing an everyday catcher?

ANy way you look at it, the Braves have developed way more hitting than pitching over the last decade or so. It's not even close.

[thethe]

Because you believe developing relief pitchers is as valuable as developing an everyday catcher?

ANy way you look at it, the Braves have developed way more hitting than pitching over the last decade or so. It's not even close.

No, they've developed more value from their hitters. Not more talented guys.