Mississippi and the Confederate Flag

[Runnin]

Being from Mississippi, this issue interests me. It's also exciting to see historical events unfold before your eyes. Writer John Grisham helped pen an open letter encouraging the flag's removal.

"The Rebel flag was never meant to fly over state capitols. ..... After General Lee surrendered, he said, “It’s time to furl the flag, boys.” The ones that were not surrendered were packed away as souvenirs, or, later, relegated to museums.

Thirty years later, in 1894, Mississippi redesigned its state flag and included the Rebel emblem in its canton. Of the eleven former Confederate states, only Georgia and Mississippi incorporated the emblem into their state flags. Georgia removed it in 2001. Mississippi retains it.
....

It is simply not fair, or honorable, to ask black Mississippians to attend schools, compete in athletic events, work in the public sector, serve in the National Guard, and go about their normal lives with a state flag that glorifies a war fought to keep their ancestors enslaved.

It’s time for Mississippi to fly a flag for all its people. "

Click here if you're from MS and want to sign the petition. Do not stand against Archie and Jimmy Buffett.

[bravesnumberone]

In Georgia, where I'm from, they took care of the emblem a while back, but the current issue is the removal of the Confederate generals from Stone Mountain and whether that should happen.

I do wonder if we need to go rename every single county and town named for a Confederate leader.

[Runnin]

In Georgia, where I'm from, they took care of the emblem a while back, but the current issue is the removal of the Confederate generals from Stone Mountain and whether that should happen.

I do wonder if we need to go rename every single county and town named for a Confederate leader.

It seems crazy to undo the mountain carving, but I'd argue that it was put there for the same reason the confederate flag was brought back - Southern obstinance on the race issue, though I'm sure some would disagree.

[Krgrecw]

I love you liberals and your hard on for wiping away anything that has to do with the confederacy off the books. As if that is the root of black problems in America. Blacks are 92% more likely to be shot by other blacks but we don't mention that. Baltimore had its most murders last month in 42 years but we won't mention that. Inner city Chicago and Detroit are crime infested **** holes but we won't mention. Low graduation rates by blacks all over the country, but we won't mention that.


But let's focus on the confederate flag. What exactly is that going to fix? Is taking the flag down going to make one black in St Louis not shot another black? Is taking a flag down going to stop one teenage black girl from not wanting to have a baby out of wedlock in Baltimore?

[zitothebrave]

I love you liberals and your hard on for wiping away anything that has to do with the confederacy off the books. As if that is the root of black problems in America. Blacks are 92% more likely to be shot by other blacks but we don't mention that. Baltimore had its most murders last month in 42 years but we won't mention that. Inner city Chicago and Detroit are crime infested **** holes but we won't mention. Low graduation rates by blacks all over the country, but we won't mention that.


But let's focus on the confederate flag. What exactly is that going to fix? Is taking the flag down going to make one black in St Louis not shot another black? Is taking a flag down going to stop one teenage black girl from not wanting to have a baby out of wedlock in Baltimore?

Yeah, you just don't get it. Not shocked at all. Even with all the information of the world at your finger tips, you're still corrupted by your southern education.

[weso1]

Yeah, you just don't get it. Not shocked at all. Even with all the information of the world at your finger tips, you're still corrupted by your southern education.

I thought he made a pretty good point there.

[zitothebrave]

I thought he made a pretty good point there.

You'd only think that if you ignored the issue entirely. The issues that we see with "black on black crime" are created with our institutional racism. That's not limited to the south, I'm not even remotely hinting at that. It's got to do with a lot of things, but it's primarily has to do with incarceration rates of blacks. Once you get a felony, you'rebasically ****ed for life. Good luck getting a good well paying job to be able to raise a good functioning family. Cause there really aren't many. So what do you do? Resort to crime. IT doesn't just happen in inner cities and to black people, but it happens disproportionately to them. And the fact that we have states that think it's OK to fly the "rebel flag" just makes it blatantly clear how big of an issue institutional racism actually is.

[Runnin]

I love you liberals and your hard on for wiping away anything that has to do with the confederacy off the books.

I actually think that's where anything to do with the confederacy should be, in the history books.

As if that is the root of black problems in America. Blacks are 92% more likely to be shot by other blacks but we don't mention that. Baltimore had its most murders last month in 42 years but we won't mention that. Inner city Chicago and Detroit are crime infested **** holes but we won't mention. Low graduation rates by blacks all over the country, but we won't mention that.

Are you so blind that you don't see any connection between the two? between an America who cares so much about its Black citizens that it is perfectly willing to allow whole states to disrespect them and the fact that the Black community seems self-destructive? Do you think there could be a connection, maybe just a little? And let's not forget that a country who cares THAT little about its Black population would also not care in a thousand other ways. They would be as blind to them as you are to the disrespect of the confederate flag.

I must quote Bob Dylan again: "Yonder stands your orphan with his gun, crying like a fire in the sun."

Your orphan? I hope that's self-explanatory.

A fire in the sun? Just like you can't see a single flame in a giant ball of fire, America cannot hear the cries of Blacks inside the great din of people crying "I want", "I need", which is America.

[Runnin]

But let's focus on the confederate flag. What exactly is that going to fix? Is taking the flag down going to make one black in St Louis not shot another black? Is taking a flag down going to stop one teenage black girl from not wanting to have a baby out of wedlock in Baltimore?

Taking down the flag is just a symbolic move but it's at least as powerful as putting it up there was in the first place. But I agree it isn't much, just another crumb of reluctant justice tossed at the Black man.

[57Brave]

"... but it's at least as powerful as putting it up ..."

well said

[msstate7]

I think the flag should be changed, but there was a vote in 2001 to keep it that passed with 65%. I like to leave issues like this to the voters. If it does change, perhaps that's the last step to get us to the liberal utopia.

[goldfly]

I think the flag should be changed, but there was a vote in 2001 to keep it that passed with 65%. I like to leave issues like this to the voters. If it does change, perhaps that's the last step to get us to the liberal utopia.

if it was left up to the majority of people in mississippi

i would be scared of what that ****ty state would still be legal for white people and illegal for anyone that isn't white

[Hawk]

if it was left up to the majority of people in mississippi

i would be scared of what that ****ty state would still be legal for white people and illegal for anyone that isn't white

Mississippi has the largest black population % in the country.

[msstate7]

if it was left up to the majority of people in mississippi

i would be scared of what that ****ty state would still be legal for white people and illegal for anyone that isn't white

Since the majority of voters in Mississippi are to stupid to vote correctly, perhaps there should be some sort of test to qualify for voting. Is this what you think should happen?

[Julio3000]

Mississippi has the largest black population % in the country.

Which meant an awful lot before the VRA, dinnit?

[Hawk]

Which meant an awful lot before the VRA, dinnit?

Well, I'm talking about voting in 2015 -- not 1965.

Do you believe that the Confederate flag is a human rights issue?

[Julio3000]

Well, I'm talking about voting in 2015 -- not 1965.

Do you believe that the Confederate flag is a human rights issue?

When considering the reasons it was flying on state buildings all over the south, yes. Don't you? It was put there in resistance to the idea of the equality and dignity of a whole segment of the population. Publicly acknowledging and consigning to history that legacy is a victory for human rights.

Are there more grave and consequential human rights issues in the country and in the world? Sure.

Well, I'm talking about voting in 2015 -- not 1965.

And sailing right past the point, apparently.

[Hawk]

When considering the reasons it was flying on state buildings all over the south, yes. Don't you? It was put there in resistance to the idea of the equality and dignity of a whole segment of the population. Publicly acknowledging and consigning to history that legacy is a victory for human rights.

No, I don't. At all really.

I'm not as familiar with the situation in Mississippi as I am with the one here in SC, but after having read up a little on the reasons/history behind why the flag was put up locally I'm comfortable not identifying the flag as any sort of totem of racist resistance. I do, however, accept that it is offensive symbol to some African Americans and have supported its removal, although I stand by the belief that it should have been a democratically backed decision.

And sailing right past the point, apparently.

I'm still not sure what your point was. My original comment was just an agreement with the idea that if black population wanted the flag down in Miss. then it would most likely be accurately reflected in a vote. The idea that the white population in the state would overwhelming oppose downing the flag is a little befuddling to me. But I'm looking at the issue contemporarily, not reaching back half a century to historically illustrate racial divides/subversion.

[Julio3000]

No, I don't. At all really.

I'm not as familiar with the situation in Mississippi as I am with the one here in SC, but after having read up a little on the reasons/history behind why the flag was put up locally I'm comfortable not identifying the flag as any sort of totem of racist resistance. I do, however, accept that it is offensive symbol to some African Americans and have supported its removal, although I stand by the belief that it should have been a democratically backed decision.




I'm still not sure what your point was. My original comment was just an agreement with the idea that if black population wanted the flag down in Miss. then it would most likely be accurately reflected in a vote. The idea that the white population in the state would overwhelming oppose downing the flag is a little befuddling to me. But I'm looking at the issue contemporarily, not reaching back half a century to historically illustrate racial divides/subversion.

Don't you think that's germane in this situation?

[Hawk]

Don't you think that's germane in this situation?

One would be remiss not to consider it, but I'd like to think that we've progressed as a society since then. Is that an irrational belief?