How Are Simmon's Defensive Metrics This Year?

[CyYoung31]

Can some of the more saber-savy posters inform me?

I'm curious, because there was a ball hit earlier tonight that he seems to get to normally. And I don't remember seeing make as many amazing plays this year as we're used to seeing.

[clvclv]

Can some of the more saber-savy posters inform me?

I'm curious, because there was a ball hit earlier tonight that he seems to get to normally. And I don't remember seeing make as many amazing plays this year as we're used to seeing.

Long way to go for me to put "serious" weight in most defensive metrics (unlike some, I'd like to see them proven with a bigger sample size), but part of me would attribute part of that to the fact that the pitching has been so bad that several of the highlight reel plays we're used to seeing disappear when many of the balls put in play aren't in places even HE can't get to.

[CyYoung31]

Long way to go for me to put "serious" weight in most defensive metrics (unlike some, I'd like to see them proven with a bigger sample size), but part of me would attribute part of that to the fact that the pitching has been so bad that several of the highlight reel plays we're used to seeing disappear when many of the balls put in play aren't in places even HE can't get to.

So, you know what the defensive metrics say? I'm just curious, not putting much stock in them at this point.

[clvclv]

So, you know what the defensive metrics say? I'm just curious, not putting much stock in them at this point.

No - I have no clue. Rarely look at them at all since I'm not a believer - yet.

[auyushu]

Can some of the more saber-savy posters inform me?

I'm curious, because there was a ball hit earlier tonight that he seems to get to normally. And I don't remember seeing make as many amazing plays this year as we're used to seeing.

The defensive stats pretty much back up what your eyes are telling you. He's still very very good with 19 DRS in 980 innings, but that's a little bit off his pace from last year when he had 28 DRS in 1280 innings for the year.

And the biggest difference does seem to be on the amazing type plays. He's only getting to 30% of the balls graded as really unlikely for him to field (10-40% chance of any SS making the play), where he was at 50% on those type plays last year. He's also down a bit on mildly challenging plays and as well.

So yeah, still among the best couple SS in baseball defensively, but not blowing everyone away like in years past.

[Tapate50]

Been a little banged up this season as well.

[Julio3000]

Been a little banged up this season as well.

Yeah, I think he's been playing hurt, and it's limited his effectiveness. He's still on top, but he's not lapping the field as in previous years. He had a little extra spring in his step at the beginning of the year that he's been missing, IMO. That said, he's only made 4 errors and is still the best around.

[MadduxFanII]

The other thing to keep in mind is that, historically, defense peaks early. That's not to say Andrelton is three years away from being Wilmer Flores at short, but it seems likely that his 2013 season is the best defensive performance he'll ever post.

[thewupk]

The other thing to keep in mind is that, historically, defense peaks early. That's not to say Andrelton is three years away from being Wilmer Flores at short, but it seems likely that his 2013 season is the best defensive performance he'll ever post.

Yeah. It's also unfair to epxect him to continue having historic season after historic season. If he's just saving 20 runs a year I'll be happy which is far an away more than 99% of other shortstops.

[MadduxFanII]

Yeah. It's also unfair to epxect him to continue having historic season after historic season. If he's just saving 20 runs a year I'll be happy which is far an away more than 99% of other shortstops.

Simmons in 2013 was a lot like Kimbrel in 2012- he just pushed the limits of what was actually possible against big league competition. Craig "declined" in 2013 and 2014, simply because what he did in 2012 was so stupidly dominant that it was unsustainable. I suspect that's Simmons' story as well.

[GovClintonTyree]

The other thing to keep in mind is that, historically, defense peaks early. That's not to say Andrelton is three years away from being Wilmer Flores at short, but it seems likely that his 2013 season is the best defensive performance he'll ever post.

Usually. Omar Vizquel was nearly as good in his late 30s as he was at his peak, and played the position well in his 40s. His bat didn't hold up. And yeah, he's an outlier, but so is our boy.

[gilesfan]

Long way to go for me to put "serious" weight in most defensive metrics (unlike some, I'd like to see them proven with a bigger sample size), but part of me would attribute part of that to the fact that the pitching has been so bad that several of the highlight reel plays we're used to seeing disappear when many of the balls put in play aren't in places even HE can't get to.

This really doesn't make sense.

[Enscheff]

It might also be a little hard to put in 110% effort on defense for a team that is playing for 2017. Certainly not worth getting hurt diving for a ball again when the team isn't going to win 70 games.

[clvclv]

This really doesn't make sense.

It actually makes perfect sense - maybe just not to you.

[CyYoung31]

I know the discussion doesn't belong in this thread though, so I don't even know why you brought it up.

[gilesfan]

It actually makes perfect sense - maybe just not to you.

He's not knocked for balls that aren't hit "in his zone." His numbers are down bc he's not making plays on balls that he typically does. That's not to say he's not still a great defender, but it's just a notch below what he's been.

[sturg33]

I think the best "defense" for defense being evaluated well within WAR is that Team WAR seems to reflect that good defensive teams are outperforming their offensive contributions.

[thewupk]

I think the best "defense" for defense being evaluated well within WAR is that Team WAR seems to reflect that good defensive teams are outperforming their offensive contributions.

Royals are the perfect example of that this season.

[clvclv]

He's not knocked for balls that aren't hit "in his zone." His numbers are down bc he's not making plays on balls that he typically does. That's not to say he's not still a great defender, but it's just a notch below what he's been.

I think that makes plenty of sense, but my question (and earlier point) was - are there fewer chances for him to make those plays on than in previous years? Are more of those balls just a little deeper in the OF or further in the holes? Given that our pitching has been substantially worse than in previous years, are there more balls dropping just a few feet outside the area anyshu was talking about?

[thewupk]

I think that makes plenty of sense, but my question (and earlier point) was - are there fewer chances for him to make those plays on than in previous years? Are more of those balls just a little deeper in the OF or further in the holes? Given that our pitching has been substantially worse than in previous years, are there more balls dropping just a few feet outside the area anyshu was talking about?

Why should the quality of pitchers matter on the amount of balls in Simmons zone? Unless our pitchers in years prior had the ability to make the batters hit the ball there. The simple solution is that wasn't Simmons true talent level and was just a freak season. Just like when someone has a super high BABIP in a given year. Simmons actual talent is likely at 20+ runs saved per year.