The Challenge to Non-Interventionist Foreign Policy

[BedellBrave]

[Hawk]

Thanks Bedell. I guess I'm not surprised this issue hasn't been brought up here yet (although it's been going on for months now) -- a lot of national news only folks obsessed with domestic policy/social issues.

In relation, there's also something to be said about unchecked immigration and the effects it can have on society. This is a learning moment for the Western world, we should be paying very close attention.

Meanwhile, the White House is 'investigating' Russian involvement in Syria ... and did anybody else enjoy the Chinese V-Day parade?

Jimmy Carter Jr. up there in DC doing a great job with Mt. Denali though. That's about as foreign as it gets for him.

[BedellBrave]

Does anyone here know where the US is on offering these folks asylum?

[The Chosen One]

Does anyone here know where the US is on offering these folks asylum?

Not sure the right wing would be happy with more immigrants entering this country, especially those who might have ties to terrorists beacuse they're muslim.

[BedellBrave]

Many wouldn't. I would. Those fleeing ISIS, the Taliban, the Iranian mullahs, etc., including many who aren't Muslims, at the peril of their lives, should find safe harbor. But that's just me.

[The Chosen One]

Many wouldn't. I would. Those fleeing ISIS, the Taliban, the Iranian mullahs, etc., including many who aren't Muslims, at the peril of their lives, should find safe harbor. But that's just me.

Good luck selling that to those that worship Trump over immigration.

[BedellBrave]

I'm not as concerned about Trump and them now as I am about our present government and it's response... The need is immediate.

[Coredor]

There is a difficult balance. You could argue that it was our intervention in Iraq and the pressure we put on Assad in Syria that created the power vacuum that allowed ISIS to develop a foothold. Looking at things purely from interventionism or isolationism will cause problems. There is a time and a place for both. Right now our will for intervention was exhausted by Iraq and Afghanistan, and we have a very serious situation that we are eventually going to have to deal with. It's a mess, but it's completely out of control.

As far as refugees, but ultimately we need to find a way they can live in their own countries. I don't see either side agreeing to allowing hundreds of thousands or possibly millions of refugees into the United States. It just won't happen. It doesn't matter who is in charge; it won't happen.

[cajunrevenge]

We arent the world police. Theres an endless number of horrible things going on in the world;

[Runnin]

We should be putting pressure on other ME countries to take more of them.

Is this a direct result of Bush/Cheney's toppling of Sadaam? Does it even matter? But it does show how profoundly naive the neo-cons were when they acted like they could start a wellspring of Democracy in the ME. It might get there yet but it ain't gonna be pretty.

[The Chosen One]

We should be putting pressure on other ME countries to take more of them.

Is this a direct result of Bush/Cheney's toppling of Sadaam? Does it even matter? But it does show how profoundly naive the neo-cons were when they acted like they could start a wellspring of Democracy in the ME. It might get there yet but it ain't gonna be pretty.

Neocons will just try to turn the tables on Obama for pulling out.

They will never view invading Iraq as a mistake.

Slightly OT, but did anybody see Chris Wallace on Fox News own Cheney about the Iran centrifuges?

[weso1]

We should be putting pressure on other ME countries to take more of them.

Is this a direct result of Bush/Cheney's toppling of Sadaam? Does it even matter? But it does show how profoundly naive the neo-cons were when they acted like they could start a wellspring of Democracy in the ME. It might get there yet but it ain't gonna be pretty.

And the naivety of those who thought we could pull all of our troops out of Iraq without something so bad happening that it would pull us right back in. Naivety is abundant on both side. In my opinion we have a moral responsibility to help those migrants. Both sides of the aisle do, because both sides have just as much responsibility in the end. Those who wanted it in the first place and those who wanted us out. I would much rather my tax dollars be spent to help these nearly helpless migrants than I would spending it on certain domestic issues.

[Runnin]

And the naivety of those who thought we could pull all of our troops out of Iraq without something so bad happening that it would pull us right back in. Naivety is abundant on both side. In my opinion we have a moral responsibility to help those migrants. Both sides of the aisle do, because both sides have just as much responsibility in the end. Those who wanted it in the first place and those who wanted us out. I would much rather my tax dollars be spent to help these nearly helpless migrants than I would spending it on certain domestic issues.

Even if we do what we can, how many of these kids are gonna grow up to blame and/or hate America? Political posturing aside, who really thinks conservative White America is going to be as welcoming and hospitable 1, 2, 5 years from now?

I'll bet illegals would have something to say about all this.

[weso1]

Even if we do what we can, how many of these kids are gonna grow up to blame and/or hate America? Political posturing aside, who really thinks conservative White America is going to be as welcoming and hospitable 1, 2, 5 years from now?

I'll bet illegals would have something to say about all this.

I would not advocate bringing them to the US. I would advocate providing temporary housing, food and security for them using an international coalition. And perhaps let the refugees help build the housing etc. Make it like a community.

[The Chosen One]

I would not advocate bringing them to the US. I would advocate providing temporary housing, food and security for them using an international coalition. And perhaps let the refugees help build the housing etc. Make it like a community.

Problem with that is, eventually you could run into a Serbia Croatia situation. France is going to have this problem in a few years in Marseille. There will be such a dominant muslim population there that they may want to claim that areas their own territory and ask for independence.

The issue with all of this in Europe is, national identity and ethnic identity are the same. French is not just a political term but an ethnic identity, same for Spain, Italy, Germany. The United States doesn't have one ethnicity defining it (although some in this country would want you to think otherwise), we all just say we're American or ___________-American.

[weso1]

Problem with that is, eventually you could run into a Serbia Croatia situation. France is going to have this problem in a few years in Marseille. There will be such a dominant muslim population there that they may want to claim that areas their own territory and ask for independence.

The issue with all of this in Europe is, national identity and ethnic identity are the same. French is not just a political term but an ethnic identity, same for Spain, Italy, Germany. The United States doesn't have one ethnicity defining it (although some in this country would want you to think otherwise), we all just say we're American or ___________-American.

Couldn't you just hire one of your guys to take care of these issues? I think if we did that it would be great and maybe even ISIS would pay for it. You could get these people help so fast it would make our heads spin.

[AerchAngel]

We should be putting pressure on other ME countries to take more of them.

Is this a direct result of Bush/Cheney's toppling of Sadaam? Does it even matter? But it does show how profoundly naive the neo-cons were when they acted like they could start a wellspring of Democracy in the ME. It might get there yet but it ain't gonna be pretty.

Bush wasn't the president, this is all Cheney's doing. He knew he would never make it as the president but when he has an idiot like Bush, he could pull his strings.

[The Chosen One]

Couldn't you just hire one of your guys to take care of these issues? I think if we did that it would be great and maybe even ISIS would pay for it. You could get these people help so fast it would make our heads spin.

Zeets is only interested in helping the children.

[jpx7]

Thanks Bedell. I guess I'm not surprised this issue hasn't been brought up here yet (although it's been going on for months now) -- a lot of national news only folks obsessed with domestic policy/social issues.

In relation, there's also something to be said about unchecked immigration and the effects it can have on society. This is a learning moment for the Western world, we should be paying very close attention.

Meanwhile, the White House is 'investigating' Russian involvement in Syria ... and did anybody else enjoy the Chinese V-Day parade?

Jimmy Carter Jr. up there in DC doing a great job with Mt. Denali though. That's about as foreign as it gets for him.

Solutions? Or just vitriol?

[jpx7]

Problem with that is, eventually you could run into a Serbia Croatia situation. France is going to have this problem in a few years in Marseille. There will be such a dominant muslim population there that they may want to claim that areas their own territory and ask for independence.

The issue with all of this in Europe is, national identity and ethnic identity are the same. French is not just a political term but an ethnic identity, same for Spain, Italy, Germany. The United States doesn't have one ethnicity defining it (although some in this country would want you to think otherwise), we all just say we're American or ___________-American.

I'm not so sure about that. I was in Marseille, in some of the primarily-Algerian neighborhoods, last Bastille Day, and those folks were some of the most patriotic, fervently pro-French people I've seen (outside of classic cinema). Lots of loudspeaker-blasted Arabic interspersed with Vive la France!

Now they sure as **** have some different ideas about how France should be governed (certain of the proscriptions of laïcité are obviously less popular in French Muslim communities), which is a problem for many French of European descent ...