Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 91

Thread: FA Pitchers

  1. #1
    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    47,430
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,704
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    11,384
    Thanked in
    7,533 Posts

    FA Pitchers

    Let's talk about FA pitchers the Bravos might pursue. I think we have 25-30M to play with this off-season. The amount could grow if we made certain moves--trading Maybin for example.

    I expect us to spend about half of that amount on a catcher and two or three bench/bullpen signings.

    It is a buyer's market for FA starting pitchers and it is in that category that I expect us to make a major acquisition. For $12-18/year we can pick up a pitcher with expected production of about 2-3 WAR.

    At the high end of that range perhaps above it you have Jordan Zimmerman. I'd be interested in him at 18M/year.

    There are some attractive options that would cost a bit less than Zimmerman: Samardzija, Latos, Lackey, Kazmir. (Group 1)

    A bit less attractive but within the projected 2-3 WAR: Buehrle, Chen, Iwakuma, Leake, Gallardo. (Group 2)

    Below that range, but possibly worth kicking the tires on at a bargain price: Kennedy, Estrada, Lohse, Anderson. (Group 3).

    I've long argued against signing pitchers to long-term deals. My opposition has somewhat softened because I think with the glut of FA starting pitchers it will be a buyers market and we can get a bargain this off-season. I still think it is important to limit the length of the contract. And I would insist on an option year to give us some upside. Ideally, 3 years plus an option year with most of these guys. And less with the older guys like Lackey and Buehrle.

    My preference would be to get someone in Group 1 or even Zimmerman. I like Leake the most of the guys in Group 2. I think our being in the midst of a rebuilding period will make it more difficult to attract some of these candidates. The FO will have to do some sifting and identify those willing to consider a team in our situation. Above all I hope they are patient and go for value rather than a particular pitcher.
    Last edited by nsacpi; 09-11-2015 at 09:48 AM.

  2. #2
    10 yr, $185 million Extension
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    4,760
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    981
    Thanked in
    766 Posts
    I think we get at least 1 vet pitcher, maybe 2. I expect it to be one we target and one that slips through the cracks. I think we'll be looking at guys who will sign for 2-3 years, so I think they'll be older.

    Hart keeps signing guys over 30 and the Braves get older and older (in my prediction).

    I think there will be a player or two in the situation Santana was a couple of years ago. With the glut of pitching options someone will get draft pick comp tied to them and not find a home. We'll be protected from that issue and maybe be able to get a 2 year deal with a team option for a third.

  3. #3
    It's OVER 5,000! UNCBlue012's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    23,425
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4,919
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,636
    Thanked in
    1,990 Posts
    I'm begging to go after Greinke or Price, but I think Zimmerman will be our guy. I just feel like it's going to happen. I can see this team signing a vet guy like Zimmerman, while also adding a catcher, a couple bench guys and bullpen guys. I do think we have some minor league guys in the BP sooner than later.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to UNCBlue012 For This Useful Post:

    JohnAdcox (09-10-2015)

  5. #4
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Orlando,FL
    Posts
    8,328
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,013
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,349
    Thanked in
    1,487 Posts
    I don't see us landing a stud like a price Grenkie or Zimmerman. One that intrigues me though is gallardo. He has been a stud in the past. Seems to be a good fit And I believe we have looked at him in the past.

    Maybe give him a 4 yr @ 13 mil a year with an option and or incentives

  6. #5
    Mr. Free Trade
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    3,139
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    470
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    834
    Thanked in
    514 Posts
    It's going to be Price at 7 years $190M

    Maybin will be moved as will a number of others to continue to stockpile for the rebuild.

  7. #6
    Hessmania Forever
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    13,994
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4,887
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    7,678
    Thanked in
    4,941 Posts
    I think they will shop in the upscale section of the store, but I don't know if they will buy anything there. I think an anchor like Price would be a great get.

  8. #7
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    26,261
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    34
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    10,000
    Thanked in
    6,108 Posts
    I think the OF will remain as is, and the Braves will either trade for a young catcher (like Susac) or give the CB/AJ duo another chance.

    I think it's a foregone conclusion they will sign at least 1 FA pitcher, but I seriously doubt they go over 4 years for any of them. That rules out Zimmerman.

    No thanks on Samahaha. The Braves already have enough guys in the rotation that can't get results with their "good stuff".

    Latos might be an excellent buy low option since he is coming off some injuries the last 2 years.

    Lackey might be OK, but would have to be on a 2 year deal max since he is older.

    Kazmir would be nice, but I imagine he is going to be the most expensive non-Ace this offseason, and out of the Braves price range.

    Leake is also my favorite from the next tier down. Anderson is my favorite from the tier below that.

    As long as they wait for the dust to settle, the Braves should be able to get a SP or 2 at a bargain rate.

  9. #8
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    26,261
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    34
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    10,000
    Thanked in
    6,108 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Horsehide Harry View Post
    It's going to be Price at 7 years $190M

    Maybin will be moved as will a number of others to continue to stockpile for the rebuild.
    Every offseason a few naive folks hold out hope for a FA signing that has 0% chance of happening.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Enscheff For This Useful Post:

    MURF21 (09-13-2015)

  11. #9
    Anytime Now Frankie...
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    1,452
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    624
    Thanked in
    345 Posts
    PRICE AND GRIENKE

    in my dreams

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Millwood1Hitter For This Useful Post:

    JohnAdcox (09-10-2015)

  13. #10
    NL Rookie of the Year
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    2,469
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    431
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    577
    Thanked in
    376 Posts
    I like Zimmerman and Leake if they become the forgotten arms with the focus being on the other bigger names. I also think we target some buy low options like Latos, Bud Norris, and Brett Anderson. Regardless I think we primarily focus on value.

  14. #11
    Arbitration Eligible NYCBrave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    3,271
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,151
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    720
    Thanked in
    526 Posts
    The problem is that since we haven't been able to develop an ace from our farm system, and none of the pieces we traded for seems to be developing into an ace, we're not going to have one for years to come. If you look at all of the playoff teams across the NL they all have at least one. It becomes increasingly important when discussing short series and wildcard games.

    Not saying I'm in favor of signing Price/Greinke, but this is our dilemma.

  15. #12
    It's OVER 5,000! yeezus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    8,108
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,501
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,720
    Thanked in
    1,122 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by NYCBrave View Post
    The problem is that since we haven't been able to develop an ace from our farm system, and none of the pieces we traded for seems to be developing into an ace, we're not going to have one for years to come. If you look at all of the playoff teams across the NL they all have at least one. It becomes increasingly important when discussing short series and wildcard games.

    Not saying I'm in favor of signing Price/Greinke, but this is our dilemma.
    What's telling you Shelby can't develop into an ace?
    What teams that win championships devote a huge % of their payroll to one player, especially a pitcher?

  16. #13
    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    47,430
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,704
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    11,384
    Thanked in
    7,533 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by NYCBrave View Post
    The problem is that since we haven't been able to develop an ace from our farm system, and none of the pieces we traded for seems to be developing into an ace, we're not going to have one for years to come. If you look at all of the playoff teams across the NL they all have at least one. It becomes increasingly important when discussing short series and wildcard games.

    Not saying I'm in favor of signing Price/Greinke, but this is our dilemma.
    Arrieta wasn't an ace two years ago. Cole was in the minors two years ago. Same with Carlos Martinez.

    Ace status fluctuates from year to year.

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to nsacpi For This Useful Post:

    yeezus (09-10-2015)

  18. #14
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    26,261
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    34
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    10,000
    Thanked in
    6,108 Posts
    Aces aren't Aces for very long, which is precisely why you don't attempt to buy them on the FA market. By the time you pay bigs bucks for them they are ready to break down.

    That's part of the reason I think Latos might be an excellent buy low option. He is only 27 now, may still be improving, and has already posted several 3-4 WAR seasons.

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to Enscheff For This Useful Post:

    JohnAdcox (09-10-2015)

  20. #15
    It's OVER 5,000! Hudson2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    8,679
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    956
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,455
    Thanked in
    1,123 Posts
    Playoff teams with aces
    Dodgers: Kershaw and Greinke
    Toronto: Price
    Chicago: Lester
    St Louis: Wainwright and a few that are on the fence
    Pittsburg: Cole
    Texas: Hamels
    Nationals: Scherzer, Strausburg, Zimmerman
    Mets: DeGrom and Harvey
    SF: Bumgarner

    So most playoff teams do have a legit ace. I don't wanna pay a veteran 15 a year for 2 years bc it's wasted money if we're not contending. Put 5 more a year with it and get a better product. Shelby is awesome but I'd put him at 2 and sign a legit ace like Price and Greinke. Especially with nothing coming in the next several years that resembles one. If the FO wants to be legit WS contenders in the next few years this is the year to buy an ace with so many available.

  21. The Following User Says Thank You to Hudson2 For This Useful Post:

    Horsehide Harry (09-10-2015)

  22. #16
    Mr. Free Trade
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    3,139
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    470
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    834
    Thanked in
    514 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    Every offseason a few naive folks hold out hope for a FA signing that has 0% chance of happening.
    We will see.

    If by naïve you mean the Braves bringing back Heyward and/or Upton, then I agree. If you mean the Braves aren't going to sign a TOR anchor for the rotation, I don't agree. Virtually every move made signals that they are gearing up to go big on a pitcher IMO.

  23. The Following User Says Thank You to Horsehide Harry For This Useful Post:

    Hudson2 (09-10-2015)

  24. #17
    It's OVER 5,000! yeezus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    8,108
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,501
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,720
    Thanked in
    1,122 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Hudson2 View Post
    Playoff teams with aces
    Dodgers: Kershaw and Greinke
    Toronto: Price
    Chicago: Lester
    St Louis: Wainwright and a few that are on the fence
    Pittsburg: Cole
    Texas: Hamels
    Nationals: Scherzer, Strausburg, Zimmerman
    Mets: DeGrom and Harvey
    SF: Bumgarner
    Not sure how Stras is an ace.
    I still maintain that true aces are horses that throw a lot of innings as well as put up great numbers. Strasburg has only ever done one of those things.

  25. #18
    Mr. Free Trade
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    3,139
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    470
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    834
    Thanked in
    514 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    Aces aren't Aces for very long, which is precisely why you don't attempt to buy them on the FA market. By the time you pay bigs bucks for them they are ready to break down.

    That's part of the reason I think Latos might be an excellent buy low option. He is only 27 now, may still be improving, and has already posted several 3-4 WAR seasons.
    Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, John Smoltz, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, and many others.

    I don't mind Latos. But, I think everyone assumes that since the Braves haven't spent big on FA pitchers in the recent past that they won't. This discounts the fact that they haven't had the money to play in that market. They do now.

    As for the argument that you don't want to tie up too much of your payroll in one player, I think they are forgetting that the Braves are spending the better part of two years rebuilding mainly by bringing in young controllable cheap talent.

    Oh, and many of those who make the percentage of payroll argument turn right around and advocate signing Heyward. Go figure.

  26. The Following User Says Thank You to Horsehide Harry For This Useful Post:

    Hudson2 (09-10-2015)

  27. #19
    Voted Worst Poster
    '13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner)
    Heyward's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    22,572
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,251
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,257
    Thanked in
    1,831 Posts
    Dont see us signing an ace.

    But if there is ever a time to make a push for one, it's now.

    If they wanted, they could sign, two #2-3 types though.

    Strasburg is the best FA SP next winter if he hits FA.

  28. #20
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    26,261
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    34
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    10,000
    Thanked in
    6,108 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Horsehide Harry View Post
    Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, John Smoltz, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, and many others.

    I don't mind Latos. But, I think everyone assumes that since the Braves haven't spent big on FA pitchers in the recent past that they won't. This discounts the fact that they haven't had the money to play in that market. They do now.

    As for the argument that you don't want to tie up too much of your payroll in one player, I think they are forgetting that the Braves are spending the better part of two years rebuilding mainly by bringing in young controllable cheap talent.

    Oh, and many of those who make the percentage of payroll argument turn right around and advocate signing Heyward. Go figure.
    Did you really just rattle off 5 first ballot HOFers as your argument?

    For every Ace like Maddux, there are 10 guys like Lincecum who was an Ace for a few years...and then suddenly wasn't.

    I suppose you can continue to assert the Braves will be in the running for Price, and I'm sure you will vanish the moment it becomes clear they aren't (since it isn't already clear now, apparently). However, I think it's a fairly safe bet the Braves aren't going to suddenly hand out a $200M contract after never handing out a FA contract that even approached $100M yet.

    Someone like Gordon for $100M is infinitely more likely than the Braves giving out $200M, and even a contract half the size of what Price will command is an extreme longshot. Hell, Freeman "only" got $135M, and that was buying the prime years of a guy the organization knows very well.
    Last edited by Enscheff; 09-10-2015 at 04:00 PM.

Similar Threads

  1. Braves Pitchers
    By Super in forum 2023: Celebrating Our 10th Year Here
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 05-24-2019, 03:03 PM
  2. Top FA pitchers rated
    By salmagundy in forum 2023: Celebrating Our 10th Year Here
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 10-10-2018, 08:46 AM
  3. K and BB rates for our Pitchers
    By nsacpi in forum Extented Spring Training
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 10-01-2018, 11:26 AM
  4. Missing pitchers
    By msstate7 in forum 2023: Celebrating Our 10th Year Here
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 09-10-2018, 12:11 AM
  5. FA Pitchers of Interest
    By nsacpi in forum 2023: Celebrating Our 10th Year Here
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 09-03-2016, 12:41 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •