Almost Braves II

[Millwood1Hitter]

Randy Myers in a waiver deal in August 1998, but was blocked and claimed by the Padres instead who defeated us in the NLCS.

Also in 1998, JS had offers on the table to acquire either Roberto Alomar or Johnny Damon, who would have been a huge addition as a leadoff hitter at a position of need in front of the big boopers of Chipper, Galarraga, Javy, Andruw and Klesko. The organization just wasn't willing to let top prospect Chen go, though, as they believed he was the next great Braves starter.

Neagle and Klesko for Knoblauch in December 1997 was close but the Braves back tracked because of the concerns over Smoltz's elbow and decided to keep Neagle. They later passed on a Neagle for Vina swap later on.

Bonds, AROD, Griffey have all be mentioned.

Jim Thome in July 2002. We had a deal with Cleveland in place but needed to shed some payroll in another move that never materialized (hello Albie Lopez and Vinny Castilla!)

Earlier before that season in December 2001, Sean Casey along with Danny Graves were almost Braves in a deal centered around Kevin Millwood. Thankfully the Reds backed out at that last second due to concerns over Millwood's shoulder and asked for Marquis instead who we were willing to not deal.

We could have had Curt Schilling instead of Ashby in 2000 but the Phils insisted on both Luis Rivera and Wilson Betemit (in addition to Chen and Osting who were in the Ashby deal) but JS and the Braves were apprehensive about dealing them to a division rival, and instead took the lesser deal and settled for Ashby instead while Schilling was later traded to the Dbacks. We tried on multiple occasions to get Schilling earlier but failed in our attempts.

After striking out on AROD and Hampton, we were in serious negotiations with Darren Dreifort but much like the AROD we were blown out of the water at the end of the negotiations and decided to stay with the Dodgers, which was a disastrous contract for them. What a wasted career.

[Knucksie]

Neagle and Klesko for Knoblauch in December 1997 was close but the Braves back tracked because of the concerns over Smoltz's elbow and decided to keep Neagle. They later passed on a Neagle for Vina swap later on.

It was said, back in '96, that Schuerholz received around 10 offers for Neagle on the day of the initial acquisition from the Pirates. Doubtful that he was brought in, just to be traded right away, as they were slotting him in as replacement for Avery.

----------------

Recalled that Bobby Cox attempted to get Ben Ogolvie from the Brewers, but ended up with Ted Simmons instead.

[zitothebrave]

Zack Greinke

[Knucksie]

Schuerholz tried to get John Wetteland during the Expos fire sale. Ended up with Marquis Grissom. Good for '95 but not '96. Think he also attempted to get Eric Gagne included in the Sheffield deal with the Dodgers.

[50PoundHead]

Ortiz. Instead, we ended up with Fick.

I think the Braves offered Fick, Ortiz, and Travis Lee something like a $1 million/one year "take it or leave it" deal and Fick was the first one in. Ortiz signed with the Red Sox for a little more and Lee signed with Tampa Bay for $500,000.

[Dalyn]

I think the Braves offered Fick, Ortiz, and Travis Lee something like a $1 million/one year "take it or leave it" deal and Fick was the first one in. Ortiz signed with the Red Sox for a little more and Lee signed with Tampa Bay for $500,000.

Yeah. It was something like that.

[Knucksie]

Going to mention somebody who was a Brave, then an almost Braves twice. Greg Colbrunn was a backup 1B/PH type. I liked him, and apparently some of the powers that be did too. He was acquired twice during stretch runs with impending free agency. Both times, if not mistaken, he was offered a contract and declined.

[nsacpi]

The Boston Braves were the first major league team to offer Willie Mays a contract.

[Millwood1Hitter]

Going to mention somebody who was a Brave, then an almost Braves twice. Greg Colbrunn was a backup 1B/PH type. I liked him, and apparently some of the powers that be did too. He was acquired twice during stretch runs with impending free agency. Both times, if not mistaken, he was offered a contract and declined.

Yep, very nice bench bat especially against lefties. We tried to keep him both time but after his second go round, was offered a long-term deal with the D'Backs. The Braves were willing to go a couple of years, I believe the D'Backs offered 4 although a Klesko-Colbrunn platoon at first in 99 when Galarraga was out and post Galarraga would have been pretty awesome going forward.

[clvclv]

Ah, yes, IIRC he vetoed the deal because he didn't believe Atlanta had great postseason odds.

Actually was more about being close to relatives and his daughter's doctors - she had (still has?) health issues. - http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/c...dodgers-072412

[Knucksie]

Actually was more about being close to relatives and his daughter's doctors - she had (still has?) health issues. - http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/c...dodgers-072412

They got to save Randall Delgado for a more valuable asset.

[chop2chip]

Zack Greinke

"MP"

[goldfly]

Mark Buehrle is another name that Atl has been rumored to have had interest in multiple times.

Would actually not surprise me to see us go after him this offseason since he is an innings eater and would be a nice veteran to mentor the younger pitchers.

last i read was that he was going to retire

[Hawk]

Actually was more about being close to relatives and his daughter's doctors - she had (still has?) health issues. - http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/c...dodgers-072412

Yeah, and CC Sabathia chose New York because the schools were better.

Dempster ended up in Texas that year.

[zitothebrave]

I think the Braves offered Fick, Ortiz, and Travis Lee something like a $1 million/one year "take it or leave it" deal and Fick was the first one in. Ortiz signed with the Red Sox for a little more and Lee signed with Tampa Bay for $500,000.

You forgot and Fick was the worst of the bunch. And not just by a little, Lee and Ortiz were way better. 3 RWAr for Lee over Fick, and Ortiz +2.8

Also Fick was a ****in the playoffs.

[Knucksie]

You forgot and Fick was the worst of the bunch.

Which explains why he accepted the offer.

[auyushu]

We could have had Curt Schilling instead of Ashby in 2000 but the Phils insisted on both Luis Rivera and Wilson Betemit (in addition to Chen and Osting who were in the Ashby deal) but JS and the Braves were apprehensive about dealing them to a division rival, and instead took the lesser deal and settled for Ashby instead while Schilling was later traded to the Dbacks. We tried on multiple occasions to get Schilling earlier but failed in our attempts.

This one right here was the dumbest of JS's career and pretty much typifies how he failed during the late 90s and early 2000s, refusing to do what was needed to get us over the hump and win a couple more WS. Instead of combining our prospects for one huge impact player we wind up spending them all anyway for two marginal pieces that get us nowhere. We make that trade for Schilling and we probably win at least one more WS with the offense we had with Sheffield.

[Knucksie]

This one right here was the dumbest of JS's career and pretty much typifies how he failed during the late 90s and early 2000s,

Any discussion of Schuerholz's worst all time move begins and ends with trading David Cone for Ed Hearn, while JS was KC GM. He would be the first to admit it. Nevertheless, my request (wasn't it reasonable?) for this thread was to try to think a little, have some fun and avoid rants.

Back to the Cone, and if memory services, JS did make at least one attempt to acquire Cone before the Yankees got him.

[Knucksie]

Some of this discussion brought back an old memory. We get plenty of blame for Schuerholz did this, didn't do that, cost us another World Series, killed my dog...

Over the years, there are rants about losing Jason Schmidt, who did not even emerge until after he left the Pirates. When the Braves acquired Denny Neagle, he was the #4 starter, and was better than most teams' staff aces. Outside the topic, but not everything has always be doom and gloom.

[Millwood1Hitter]

Some of this discussion brought back an old memory. We get plenty of blame for Schuerholz did this, didn't do that, cost us another World Series, killed my dog...

Over the years, there are rants about losing Jason Schmidt, who did not even emerge until after he left the Pirates. When the Braves acquired Denny Neagle, he was the #4 starter, and was better than most teams' staff aces. Outside the topic, but not everything has always be doom and gloom.

That may be true, but a couple of things on that particular deal. First off, I never did lose any sleep over trading Schmidt who eventually developed into a dominant starter many years later, and I was a big Neagle fan and enjoyed the time and success he had in an Atlanta uniform. That's paramount and a fact, but the Neagle deal was also the beginning of the end of the Braves as we knew them. It was the prelude to having to deal Justice and Grissom in basically a salary dump in order to sign Glavine and Maddux to extensions.. Denny Neagle, was a luxury at the time, and not a need despite the spiraling career of Avery. Instead of investing money in more starting pitching, we should have used those resources including Schmidt to strengthen other areas of the club, especially the bullpen. We should have road the coat tails of the big 3 during their prime during this time, the way the playoff format was and still is a great #4 starter is not a necessity. For the most part we had a pretty dynamic offense built around power. But our biggest weakness was the pen, and if we would have had another capable arm or 2 to go along with Wohlers in 1996, things change substancially. Besides the differences in lineups, that was the biggest difference between us and the Yank's in the 90's. We had an edge in starting pitching, I'd say we had an edge at almost every every day position, but the Yanks also spent and allocated resources to the bullpen and had guys to compliment Wetteland and Rivera with the likes of Nelson, Stanton, Lloyd, Mendoza, Weathers, etc. That was the difference. I've always said, the Yanks had Mo and we didn't and that is the difference between us having a potential dynasty with multiple rings compared to just one. JS and the brass at that time didn't think the bullpen, or depth in the bullpen was important at that time and it cost us. When he finally figured it out, it was too late when Smoltz was moved to closer, as Glavine and Maddux we're no longer the workhouse stallions of previous years and resulted in little to no postseason success.

How many times did we see it? The bullpen was always a weakness and revolving door in the early 90's. We all remember Wohlers in 1996 but what about in 1999? We had leads late in the game in 2 games in the WS against the Yanks, but lost primarily due to the fact that we didn't have anyone that Bobby was confident in to go to and lost in the late innings because he kept the starters in too long. I wonder how different things would have been if say we would have acquired Wetteland during the Expos fire sale after the strike of 1994 instead of acquiring another starter middle of the season 1996? I know that's revisionist history, and after the fact, but the fact of the matter remains the same, JS failed to put together a complete team and failed to recongnize the value of having a good bullpen instead of picking up a bunch of no-good has beens that Leo had to reclaim into something that was usuable, and usually effective, until the bright lights of October and advanced scout reports exposed them for what they were. In 1996, who did Bobby have that exactly instilled confidence? Brad Clontz, lol., Mike Bielicki, Terrell Wade. Mercy. And JS failed miserably at finding a replacement for the injured Pedro Bourbon in 1996, and counting on the ticking timebomb of Wohlers to be the horse out of the pen every night was clearly not the answer and it backfired big time.