Star Wars Discussion Thread (Spoilers Inside)

[The Chosen One]

Hardly. It sets the tone for theme of the movie. Let the past die, kill it if you must. Luke wasn't gonna be wielding a lightsaber or flying his xwing. He rejected Anakin's lightsaber and sunk his XWing years ago.

The tone of the movie is what I have an issue with. I'm not against change or doing something different, but the execution in this movie was not that great.

Most of what you say is 100% wrong. Luke wasn't 30 more years in tune with the force. He severed his ties to the force on Ach To. He says in the film that his hubris lead to the creation of Kylo Ren so he went in excile, similar to Obi Wan Kenobi and Yoda after Yoda failed to kill the Emperor and after Obi Wan failed Anakin. It's very much in line with what happened to other jedi and directly contradicts your line about it conflicting with other films. As far as the thought about killing him, that was a very Skywalker thing to do. The balance Anakin was supposed to bring to the force was the ability to control the dark and the light which means that he has dark thoughts. He never was Obi Wan or Yoda, and he wasn't supposed to be, the same with Luke .The difference between Luke and Vader is while he dabbles in the dark, he never fully turns. THink about the final battle with Vader. He succumbs mid battle to fighting Vader after Vader senses Leia so Luke rages out and destroys Vader in a fit of rage disarming him (literally) and Luke then stops before fully turning to the dark side. The same thing he did with Ben. He saw the dark side and out of fear the dark side rose, before the light rose up to meet it and he stopped. To me it's a very Skywalker thing to do.





To quote Han Solo, "That's not how the Force works" When has a force ghost ever been summoned? Come on be smarter.



Hamill had a different view of Luke, he fleshed it out with Johnson. And by most accounts he's happy with the direction it took, because he realizes that Luke isn't something he owns, it's something he's a part of and Star Wars is bigger than him, or Lucas.




Give me examples. Because most of the humor aside from the Porgs flying arond the ship was a pretty poignant response. If you watch the OT there's lots of moments like this. Leia being rescued by Luke "Aren't you short for a Stormtrooper" and countless other examples.

When has a Force Ghost ever been summoned? While Luke didn't summon Obi-Wan's Force Ghost he certainly arrived at the right time. I find it hard to believe that Obi-Wan and Yoda weren't helping Luke rebuild the Jedi Order, albeit Luke made some changes to modernize the thinking like love and relationships.

"And by most accounts" lol ok. I don't think Hamill is going to bash it now that movie is out, but he was very outspoken of how much he didn't like Rian's writing of Luke.

I wanted to address this in a different post. Lucas is a brillaint idea man but a bad director and writer.

THink about it this way, Natalie Portman, Oscar Winning actress. Did you see that from her performance in Star Wars? Jake Lloyd and Hayden Christensen effectively left the film business. McGregor has had a decent post Star Wars career but he's about the only person to come out of the prequels looking good.

You're so obsessed about performances when the OT also had some passable acting. Again, this just adds on to your ultimate hatred of the prequels. You're the same mold of entitled fans that shouted "GEORGE LUCAS ****ED MY CHILDHOOD" at the Star Wars Anniversary Celebration earlier this year when Lucas walked on stage.

Jake Lloyd was a child actor. They don't always turn into a-list celebs. Portman was a decent child actor before Star Wars and has had a nice career afterwards. This is a silly talking point.

[The Chosen One]

Total waste of Snoke AND Phasma. Hard for me to shake that. Would've been much better if Snoke would've had to fight them both while keeping Kylo from calling the saber to him (thus cutting Snoke in half). The injury from the attack would weakened him enough for them to win, but barely. THAT would've been a cool scene and not a waste and would've conveyed how powerful he was. They just ****ed Phasma up from the beginning, so I have no suggestions there other than
to read the book, I guess.

Snoke has been a total waste for sure. Phasma was only there to continue to tell Finn he was a traitor. Phasma was supposed to be an elite trooper. Outsmarted by a janitor, no actual character devopment. Just female with a nice chrome colored suit. Her mask shattering and seeing her eyes before her fall wasn't even worth anything because her character development was trash the entire two films. Not going to care about seeing her eyes.

Really liked Kylo in this one. That was the strength of the film.

I will say, Rian Johnson did a better job with Kylo/Adam Driver in this movie than JJ did. In TFA he was unstomachable. Whiny brat just so annoying. This time on-screen his presence was much better. You could really see the pain/anger/hate/conflict within him this time.

I think the "waste", at least with Snoke, comes from the sequel-trilogy's seeming desire to destabilize, disrupt, or outright defy our expectations. A big fancy high-stakes-but-not-really battle would've been just what the sci-fi operatic action narrative called for—so the film actively resists it.

I'm not sure yet how I feel about this new sequel (which I saw on Friday night). I know it wasn't the fun nostalgia-bomb that was The Force Awakens' setting-the-ground narrative, but two of those would've probably been boring; I know I'm apt to trust Rian Johnson, based on his other work; and I know this new film is difficult in a good way, which hasn't really been true—as much as I love the original trilogy—of any film outside Empire (which is its best part, though not its most fun—that's A New Hope, for sure). Overall, I guess I'm reserving judgment until I see where the final film goes—but it is quite exciting, if also nostalgically sad, to see them try to blow up all the rules to forge forward. And there's something to be said for critiquing the idea that the Hero, the Jedi, the Good and Ordered Faith somehow has a monopoly on the Force, or on Star Wars, or on stories in general.

I've never been against going against the grain or doing something different. But the way zeets is defending this movie it's pretty hilarious. I can appreciate Rian trying to do things differently, but just because they're different doesn't mean they were executed very well.

The Casino stuff could have been eliminated. The Child Slave Labor kids... the animal rights' advocate Rose... the Occupy Wallstreet v. 1% theme... somehow Zeets wants me to believe this all ties in to "Letting Go".

Again there was some very bad execution in this movie but you'd never know by reading Zeets' posts. You'd think this movie topped Empire.

[The Chosen One]

I am going to see this movie again, because it's Star Wars and even the ones I don't like I still watch anyways because it's Star Wars.

Snoke was a waste. Andy Serkis' had a commanding presence in every scene with this voice. No backstory on Snoke. How he rose to power and became Supreme Leader. Just a stepping stone for Ren's development which ok I get but still, what a waste of a villain. I wasn't fond of sacrificing Snoke's potential with putting over Ren as this badass.

Ren himself still has some serious issues that aren't ready for leadership. First Order might be more incompetent than the Empire.

I didn't even like TFA as much as others, but I can acknowledge how much TLJ pretty much poops on what TFA tried to build. Ironic zeets you see Hamill realized his character was part of something bigger, someone should have told Rian he's not bigger than the saga either.

[The Chosen One]

There was all sorts of unnecessary Marvelesque humor that shouldn't have been in the movie.

1) Porgs are useless. People said they're the new ewoks. No. Porgs offered zero to the movie except Disney selling merchandise and capitalizing on commercialization.

2) Luke tossing the saber was stupid. Sorry zeets, don't care if you try to connect it to the theme of the movie it was very unLuke like and dumb. It completely eliminated the gravitas of the ending of TFA when Rey reaches out to Luke. You can try and justify it a hundred times, it was dumb and poorly written. Him slapping it away, him refusing to take it would have made more sense than taking it and nonchalantly throwing it away behind him.

3) Luke going from serious to drinking the milk and giving Rey a bizarre smirk of approval and head nod. Just out of place and again ruins what that scene was building up to.

4) The leaf thing is hit or miss. I personally didn't care for it at all. It's something I could see Yoda doing in Empire Strikes Back to toy with Luke. But it was already piling on the unnecessary humor Luke was showing up to that point.

5) Rey destroying the Island was pretty eh. I guess Luke nor Rey gave a crap about the caretakers who had apparently been there for generations long before Luke arrived.

6) Finn was much more tame this movie where a lot of his humor in TFA was definitely forced. But the Casino adventure was a waste and ruined the pacing of the movie. Just adds on to the unnecessary animal rights stuff with Rose and against the 1% vibes those scenes were giving.

7) Luke's dust the dirt off ya shoulder. Again, so unnecessary and took me out of the scene after he did it.

Again, I'm not against humor in Star Wars. Star Wars has always had humor but they were within the confines and boundaries of each character's personality. Characters weren't making jokes or comedy that was out of character for them. And several times in this movie Luke goes from serious to stand up comedian. That's why it ruins so many scenes for me because it's really unnecessary and an insult to the audience. This movie tried to make up for Han's levity not being there.

Don't even get me started again on Luke and betraying the Force again.

[The Chosen One]

Hamill was excellent. Stole the show and did the most with what he was given.

By the way, the movie should have ended with Luke disappearing into the Force and the sun. Not the child slave labor kids. But to bring up zeets point, it's about letting go and acknowleding those child slave labor kids are the future, am i rite?

[zitothebrave]

You're so obsessed about performances when the OT also had some passable acting. Again, this just adds on to your ultimate hatred of the prequels. You're the same mold of entitled fans that shouted "GEORGE LUCAS ****ED MY CHILDHOOD" at the Star Wars Anniversary Celebration earlier this year when Lucas walked on stage.

Jake Lloyd was a child actor. They don't always turn into a-list celebs. Portman was a decent child actor before Star Wars and has had a nice career afterwards. This is a silly talking point.

Sorry but nope. The OT had some bad acting, but the OT embraced it. No one but Alec Guinness and Cushing were the ones with the biggest clout to start and they died off in the first film. And they didn't really add any heavy hitters, McDermid being the closest and he was mainly a theater actor. Prequels had Liam Neeson, an established actor who was ominated for an Oscar as Oscar Schindler. It had Christopher Lee, a legend who was putting on a clinic as Saruman the white/many colored while kind of being forgotten as Count Dooku, Samuel L. Jackson, a hollywood regular already nominated for a best supporting actor award and multiple golden globes. And it's worth noting Natalie Portman wasn't a child actress at this point, she was an incredibly well regarded Child Actress putting in an amazing turn in Leon the Professional, and she had to work really hard to shed her performances from the prequels. The **** performances in the prequels have a lot to do with Lucas. If not everything to do because he was the big man in them. In the OT he was the big man on ANH but on Empire he was actually pretty hands off. In RotJ he was more hands on and had to do with what most people hate about the films, like Ewoks instead of Wookies.

[zitothebrave]

Hamill was excellent. Stole the show and did the most with what he was given.

By the way, the movie should have ended with Luke disappearing into the Force and the sun. Not the child slave labor kids. But to bring up zeets point, it's about letting go and acknowleding those child slave labor kids are the future, am i rite?

It ending there would have been fine, but it sure would have eliminated the reaction from Rey and Leia for a whole nother movie and that would suck. As far as the kid the importance of that ending wasn't the connection to the force, it was showing that the resistance message got out and Luke did light the spark that's going to burn down the first order.

[The Chosen One]

I know what the ending was. zeets just because indont like the movie as much as you doesn’t mean I didn’t understand what was going on or it doesn’t make the execution of the movie any better.

The movie should have ended with Luke saying goodbye and the sun especially with how important of a character he is to the series. He probably will come back as a force ghost anyways but still.

The kids and Casino stuff were some of the worst parts of the movie and it shouldn’t have ended with them. Plain and simple.

[zitothebrave]

There was all sorts of unnecessary Marvelesque humor that shouldn't have been in the movie.

1) Porgs are useless. People said they're the new ewoks. No. Porgs offered zero to the movie except Disney selling merchandise and capitalizing on commercialization.

2) Luke tossing the saber was stupid. Sorry zeets, don't care if you try to connect it to the theme of the movie it was very unLuke like and dumb. It completely eliminated the gravitas of the ending of TFA when Rey reaches out to Luke. You can try and justify it a hundred times, it was dumb and poorly written. Him slapping it away, him refusing to take it would have made more sense than taking it and nonchalantly throwing it away behind him.

3) Luke going from serious to drinking the milk and giving Rey a bizarre smirk of approval and head nod. Just out of place and again ruins what that scene was building up to.

4) The leaf thing is hit or miss. I personally didn't care for it at all. It's something I could see Yoda doing in Empire Strikes Back to toy with Luke. But it was already piling on the unnecessary humor Luke was showing up to that point.

5) Rey destroying the Island was pretty eh. I guess Luke nor Rey gave a crap about the caretakers who had apparently been there for generations long before Luke arrived.

6) Finn was much more tame this movie where a lot of his humor in TFA was definitely forced. But the Casino adventure was a waste and ruined the pacing of the movie. Just adds on to the unnecessary animal rights stuff with Rose and against the 1% vibes those scenes were giving.

7) Luke's dust the dirt off ya shoulder. Again, so unnecessary and took me out of the scene after he did it.

Again, I'm not against humor in Star Wars. Star Wars has always had humor but they were within the confines and boundaries of each character's personality. Characters weren't making jokes or comedy that was out of character for them. And several times in this movie Luke goes from serious to stand up comedian. That's why it ruins so many scenes for me because it's really unnecessary and an insult to the audience. This movie tried to make up for Han's levity not being there.

Don't even get me started again on Luke and betraying the Force again.

1. Porgs were useless. They were added to give CHewbacca something to interact with. They weren't given extended screen time, I don't understand why you'd be upset about them.

2. Sorry you hated that scene, I 100% disagree with you so it's a waste to debate it it seems.

3. Scene was awkward, but there's a few ways it could have been that way. Way 1 Luke wanted to scare Rey off and being gross was a tactic, or more likely it was showing how Luke survived deserted on an Island.

4. It was very much done as a Yoda-esque type of training. Also it was likely done because Luke wasn't being serious, he didn't realize Rey was as strong as she was.

5. Rey destroying the island was humor, but it was hardly out of place. It was to show where she hadn't grasped the power of the force yet. As far as care for the Island Luke cared, it was Rey/Chewie who showed less respect.

6.That doesn't seem like your case of forced humor. So maybe bring that tangent elsewhere.

7. THat was a brilliant reference because he had no salt on him. It was Luke really rubbing it in Kylo's face that he was so blind by his rage. I didn't find it unnecessary, I found it highly necessary given what happened around it.

[zitothebrave]

I know what the ending was. zeets just because indont like the movie as much as you doesn’t mean I didn’t understand what was going on or it doesn’t make the execution of the movie any better.

The movie should have ended with Luke saying goodbye and the sun especially with how important of a character he is to the series. He probably will come back as a force ghost anyways but still.

The kids and Casino stuff were some of the worst parts of the movie and it shouldn’t have ended with them. Plain and simple.

So you're fine with going a whole movie not knowing if Rey and Co escape or how Rey and Leia handle Luke's passing?

[The Chosen One]

So you're fine with going a whole movie not knowing if Rey and Co escape or how Rey and Leia handle Luke's passing?

Really not that hard.

Resistance escapes.

Luke is shown exhausted.

Rey and Leia are talking and suddenly look at each other in silence.

Luke is shown looking at the sun and slowly disappearing. Finally showing the hood flying away.

Rey and Leia talk about Luke going peacefully.

Back to Atch-Too showing the Sunset playing the Twin Suns theme. Obviously symbolizing Luke’s Sunset.

Fade to credits.

[zitothebrave]

Really not that hard.

Resistance escapes.

Luke is shown exhausted.

Rey and Leia are talking and suddenly look at each other in silence.

Luke is shown looking at the sun and slowly disappearing. Finally showing the hood flying away.

Rey and Leia talk about Luke going peacefully.

Back to Atch-Too showing the Sunset playing the Twin Suns theme. Obviously symbolizing Luke’s Sunset.

Fade to credits.

Cause cutting back and forth between 2 shots is incredibly effective. It explains why you like the prequels with their multiple jumpy final battles.

[The Chosen One]

Cause cutting back and forth between 2 shots is incredibly effective. It explains why you like the prequels with their multiple jumpy final battles.

You are the biggest Nolan homer on here and you’re complaining about shots going back and forth?

[The Chosen One]

Besides. We don’t need confirmation from Rey and Leia about Luke.

Luke and Leia holding hands one last time sufficed more than enough.

[zitothebrave]

You are the biggest Nolan homer on here and you’re complaining about shots going back and forth?

Nolan is a genius, don't compare him to any other director. No one has perfected the art of non-linear editing like him and his team. Don't compare. And I'm not against cutting, it's jarring to keep doing it. And for a simple effect. I think the way they handled it was quite brilliant myself. Having luke staring into the sunset, then back to Rey. Perfect, the passing of the torch handled quite well.

[sturg33]

This movie was underwhelming

[Krgrecw]

I actually liked it. The humor was beyond horrible. Should had all been cut. No way that Rey’s parents are really nobodies.

[thewupk]

My main problem is that the Finn stuff was pretty pointless. I like the rest of the film. It got back to it's space opera roots.

[sturg33]

Here are my issues... in no particular order

1. Why waste Snoke like this? You spent an entire movie building him up, then another full scene showcasing his power, and then you kill him without us learning a single thing about him? I'm OK with him dying, but who the hell was he? And why was he so easily killed?

2. Rey's backstory is no longer interesting. Why do I even care about her now?

3. Luke came across as a mopey baby and a really bad teacher

4. Why is Finn still a thing? He is pointless. He's just annoying and provides no value to the plot

5. Why didn't the new admiral tell Poe her plan? It would have saved us a massive waste of time from needing to go on the casino planet

6. Leia... floating in space? Uhh... OK. That was painful to watch. And if she could do that so easily... why couldn't Palpatine simply float back up after Vader threw him off the ledge?

7. What was the point of the TFA? They spent the whole movie having a resistance take out a mega-dumb planet weapon... and here we are back and it didn't appear to make a dent in the first order at all. At what point do we care what the good guys are doing if we always know the bad guys will be uber powerful in the next film

8. What's the point of Captain Phasma?

9. Luke being a hologram rather than in person was less cool for me. Why not simply go and sacrifice yourself like Obi-Wan did?

10. Why didn't the good guys use light-speeding into a star destroyer a million times before? I don't buy it

11. Kylo Ren is the only interesting character left... and sadly he's way less cool than Vader ever was

12. I wish they had Kylo and Rey team up, and gone in that direction. Now, we're left with yet another Vader vs Luke story - with substantially less interesting characters


I felt the movie had promise and could have gone in a cool direction. But it didn't, sadly. Oh well - I'll see the next one, but this was a letdown.

[jpx7]

Here are my issues... in no particular order

1. Why waste Snoke like this? You spent an entire movie building him up, then another full scene showcasing his power, and then you kill him without us learning a single thing about him? I'm OK with him dying, but who the hell was he? And why was he so easily killed?

Again, not a waste. His death subverts your expectations—and it happens so "easily" because his Sith hubris saw Ben Solo's emotions, but miscalculated their ends. And this story is largely about hubris and miscalculation.

2. Rey's backstory is no longer interesting. Why do I even care about her now?

Why must she have a bombshell parentage to be interesting? You should care about her because she's one of the most powerful Force-connected folks in the galaxy, and she rejects the offers to burn it all down in favor of a future that embraces parts of the past without dogmatically relying on its crusty dichotomies.

3. Luke came across as a mopey baby and a really bad teacher

I don't think so. He fails as a teacher of Ben Solo; but the very misgivings he has and reflects upon ultimately make him a much better teacher for Rey. As for being "mopey"—I think it's natural to be a bit downcast about potentially sending the galaxy back into the same darkness from which you thought you rescued it.

4. Why is Finn still a thing? He is pointless. He's just annoying and provides no value to the plot

This did seem to be a bit of a wheel-spinning film for Finn. But for the overall trilogy, he still has an obvious point: a character who broke away from his pre-ordained "destiny" (unquestioning soldier of empire) towards something better and more. Only seems annoying if you're into that sort of imperial wealth-and-might worldview.

5. Why didn't the new admiral tell Poe her plan? It would have saved us a massive waste of time from needing to go on the casino planet

Presumably to avoid leaks? That does seem like a bit of a plot contrivance, though.

6. Leia... floating in space? Uhh... OK. That was painful to watch. And if she could do that so easily... why couldn't Palpatine simply float back up after Vader threw him off the ledge?

Different circumstances—Palps was weakened by his force-lightning focus on Luke, surprised by Vader's turnabout, and most importantly he was thrown into a reactor-core, not just into a well.

7. What was the point of the TFA? They spent the whole movie having a resistance take out a mega-dumb planet weapon... and here we are back and it didn't appear to make a dent in the first order at all. At what point do we care what the good guys are doing if we always know the bad guys will be uber powerful in the next film

It's point was to be a JJ Abrams nostalgia-bomb to set this whole new thing off. As to the point of rooting for good guys even "if we always know the bad guys will" come back strong, that's pretty much the story of human history, and yet there are still people rooting against general ****tiness for something better.

8. What's the point of Captain Phasma?

To be Evil Brienne of Tarth?

9. Luke being a hologram rather than in person was less cool for me. Why not simply go and sacrifice yourself like Obi-Wan did?

I think the distance made his fiction stronger. Plus he's probably stronger with the Force on the Force Planet.

10. Why didn't the good guys use light-speeding into a star destroyer a million times before? I don't buy it

Seems like this should have been a tactic used at perilous moments before. No good answer here.

11. Kylo Ren is the only interesting character left... and sadly he's way less cool than Vader ever was

Disagree—unless "cool" is just "more murderous" under your definition.

12. I wish they had Kylo and Rey team up, and gone in that direction. Now, we're left with yet another Vader vs Luke story - with substantially less interesting characters

Are we, though? Not sure that's set-in-stone.

I felt the movie had promise and could have gone in a cool direction. But it didn't, sadly. Oh well - I'll see the next one, but this was a letdown.

Not a perfect film, but I liked it a lot better than Rogue One, as far as "different directions" go. I also personally enjoyed that the capitalist military-industrial-decadence cycle is what keeps this destructive, parallel, mutually-defeating cycle between "light" and "dark" going strong.