Star Wars Discussion Thread (Spoilers Inside)

[chop2chip]

Considering Ren told Han how wise the supreme leader was, and Han was saying how Snoke was just using him... along with the other scenes, I'd say they spent substantial capital on Snoke



I just don't. Han isn't a super powerful force user with no training.



What did Luke teach? Nothing. He basically just runs away as Rey realizes she has super power



As of now his sole purpose is to add 45 min to the run time of the movie that aren't needed



Because he asked and was clearly a loose cannon. Why the hell wouldn't she tell him? Oh right - if she had, we wouldn't have been able to have the unnecessary Occupy Wall Street social justice scene




Yeah - a little tired of watching the same movie over and over again



Just a waste of space. More potential wasted. Her claim to fame is getting beat up by a janitor



OH DARN IT I MISSED THIS BY A MILLION MILES??? Damn, guess that more of that brilliant writing.

Out of curiousity, did you read Ben Shapiro’s review of The Last Jedi? Your criticisms and overall general observations from this post and your initial review for the film match his like almost 100 percent.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dai...-shapiro%3famp

[zitothebrave]

Yet that 0 gravity wasn't there when they dropped all the bombs in the beginning of the film

2 things.

1. Star Wars isn't Sci-Fi. It's a space opera. In Space ships cannot dogfight the way Ties and especially X-Wings do. Propulsion doesn't work that way. So don't try and apply real world physics to non-real work reality.

2. There was gravity inside the ship. Think of it like the astronauts playing golf on the moon. There was no natural lift to the ball, but when lift was provided to the ball via kinetic energy from a club via human, it achieved lift and then continued it's trajectory. Now we're talking about a similar idea, where artificial gravity pulls the bombs down and they continue that movement in the same direction. See, applied basic physics to make it plausible.

Stop reading bad reddit theories and thinking you're having a Sarah Palin "Gotcha" moment.

[chop2chip]

I really enjoyed TLJ. It wasn’t The Godfather by any means, but it was a fun popcorn flick that did a great job subverting expectations.

My only real critique is the misuse of Benny the Bull. He’s probably the most talented actor to appear in a Star Wars film and his take on the character (with the stutter) was really great. It’s just unfortunate that his character was a complete throwaway.

[zitothebrave]

Considering Ren told Han how wise the supreme leader was, and Han was saying how Snoke was just using him... along with the other scenes, I'd say they spent substantial capital on Snoke

So you're basically just describing the Emperor, cool.

"Luke, I don't want to lose you to the Emperor the way I lost Vader."

I could go on. Snoke was set up as Ren's master. Why is it hard to accept?

I just don't. Han isn't a super powerful force user with no training.

So I guess Rey spending time with Luke training on Ahch To was no training? Even so how is that justified? What's Palpatine's backstory? Again, talking Canon. We don't know how he became so powerful, we never know how Plagueis trained him.

What did Luke teach? Nothing. He basically just runs away as Rey realizes she has super power

He taught her a **** ton. First he taught her what the force really was. Realize again she thought coming in the force was tricks with pushing and suggestion. Luke then tells her how it really works. He also points out the hubris in the Jedi ways and why the Jedi order as it was had to die. Jedi didn't have a monopoly on the light, the light always exists. Rey was taught the force, and taught by Luke that

As of now his sole purpose is to add 45 min to the run time of the movie that aren't needed

Yeah, you don't get what I'm saying. Even if you eliminate my theory. Finn is there to show for lack of a better term an outsiders perspective on the resistance. Kind of like Han in the OT.

Because he asked and was clearly a loose cannon. Why the hell wouldn't she tell him? Oh right - if she had, we wouldn't have been able to have the unnecessary Occupy Wall Street social justice scene

Why did he not just follow orders? OK let's throw a scenario. If your boss's boss's boss tells you to do something. Do you subterfuge him/her and then mutiny? No. You'd do it. Because that's how a well oiled machine runs. Poe didn't learn his lesson the first time he disobeyed an order. And he made the exact same mistake. Again I ask, why does it matter that she didn't tell him the plan? You can explain it away as the simple risk of imperial tracking or spies or maybe there was concern of if the fuel would last.

Yeah - a little tired of watching the same movie over and over again

I can't even

Just a waste of space. More potential wasted. Her claim to fame is getting beat up by a janitor

Boba Fett died being weakly hit by a blind man and crashing into a yacht.

OH DARN IT I MISSED THIS BY A MILLION MILES??? Damn, guess that more of that brilliant writing.

It was, it was some epic foreshadowing that you missed, I'm kind of sorry you missed it or didn't enjoy it. Cause it was brilliant by Johnson. One of many great examples of fantastic storytelling and writing.

[sturg33]

I don't care enough to keep going back in circles. Glad you liked it. I thought it was a big miss

[zitothebrave]

I don't care enough to keep going back in circles. Glad you liked it. I thought it was a big miss

You're allowed to have an opinion. As long as you're not having a hypocritical opinion. I cannot stand hypocrisy, rose colored glasses, etc. I find it ironic that people have chosen the last 2 star wars films to attempt to pick on Physics, deus ex machina devices, etc. In RotJ we had a gang of ewoks defeat a Legion of the Empire's best troops. Or how a small band of X and Y Wings could go against the might of the Death Star, how luke seemingly out of nowhere could jump 30 feet in the air. So on so forth. You have to take these films with a huge grain of salt, they're not supposed to be logical, they're supposed to be enjoyable. I feel it's very likely you went into this looking for something to hate because it's common to do nowadays. Hate what's popular, hate what's different, hate what's cool. I knew SAV wasn't gonna like this because he liked the prequels. Here we're getting a treat, a truly talented director and writer taking his spin on a classic fantasy film. Sure it misses at points, but it hits so well so often I'm more than willing to forgive it. It also had the job of severing the ties to the past that were necessary for Star Wars to evolve and not just be a rehashing of the OT over and over again.

"Let the past die, kill it if you must" I knew by that being the line they opened the trailer with, that this was gonna be something different, It wasn't gonna be what everyone expected. Johnson crafted something quite brilliant on a blockbuster scale. It's not quite as good of a hit as Blade Runner 2049, but it's pretty damned great.

[sturg33]

I hated the prequals too.

I like Rogue One quite a bit

[The Chosen One]

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5...f99e16864d/amp

Hamill just echoeing what many of us have said about the bad direction taken with writing Of Luke

[The Chosen One]

I knew SAV wasn't gonna like this because he liked the prequels..

Get over yourself buddy.

I love the original 6. I love Rogue One because it’s actually Wars in Star Wars.

I dont think highly of Force Awakens because it blatantly ripped off so many previous Star Wars stuff and didn’t even try to hide it. I’ve still watched it several times because it’s Star Wars. While I was entertained by Last Jedi I still find many flaws with the storytelling. i don’t think it’s **** in the same way you blatantly disregard the prequels. I will watch it several more times because of Mark Hamill’s greatness, despite how much I don’t like how Luke was portrayed.

[zitothebrave]

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5...f99e16864d/amp

Hamill just echoeing what many of us have said about the bad direction taken with writing Of Luke

Except that's not what he said. What he said was it wasn't George Lucas's version of Luke. It was Rian Johnson's version, and Luke loved working with Johnson and thought the vision was brilliant. Also remember Lucas's vision of Luke told to Mark Hamill is about 30 years old. Do you think if Lucas made the Sequels he would have had a Jedi Order redux? When you watch the prequels the jedi order was the ultimate failure. Personally i think Johnson's take on the Jedi is the logical take. My complaint is that he even tried to start a Jedi Academy but that's on Abrams and co.

[jpx7]

Get over yourself buddy.

I love the original 6. I love Rogue One because it’s actually Wars in Star Wars.

I dont think highly of Force Awakens because it blatantly ripped off so many previous Star Wars stuff and didn’t even try to hide it. I’ve still watched it several times because it’s Star Wars. While I was entertained by Last Jedi I still find many flaws with the storytelling. i don’t think it’s **** in the same way you blatantly disregard the prequels. I will watch it several more times because of Mark Hamill’s greatness, despite how much I don’t like how Luke was portrayed.

Prequels could've been legitimately great films—something I was reflecting on the other day when I was trying to explain the textual release-history and conceptual broad-strokes of Star Wars (the overall enterprise) to my girlfriend (who took me to see both Rogue One and The Last Jedi, but hasn't really sat down and watched any of the other films). Significantly, the idea of a proud democratic republic falling into torpor and seeing both its weaknesses and greatest strengths deployed against it, to its ultimate dark autocratic downfall, is a powerful arc (and one that's even more relevant today than ten years ago).

Sadly, they simply weren't well-executed. Dialogue was stilted and bad; acting was mostly as fluid as cement, and mostly bad; pod race sequence ruined the pacing of the first film, and is still unforgivable; yoda lightsaber duel in Attack is less commonly derided, but for me even more unconscionable, fan-servicey, over-CGI'd, and unforgivable than the pod race (and really seems more Disney than any of the actual Disney-produced films). I've never rewatched Revenge of the Sith, so I can't comment critically on that one—I saw it in an air-conditioned tent at Bonnaroo 2006, and surprisingly really liked it, but I'd eaten a handful of mushrooms (among other consumption) a few hours before, so I feel there are mitigating circumstances to my gloss of that film.

[zitothebrave]

Get over yourself buddy.

I love the original 6. I love Rogue One because it’s actually Wars in Star Wars.

I dont think highly of Force Awakens because it blatantly ripped off so many previous Star Wars stuff and didn’t even try to hide it. I’ve still watched it several times because it’s Star Wars. While I was entertained by Last Jedi I still find many flaws with the storytelling. i don’t think it’s **** in the same way you blatantly disregard the prequels. I will watch it several more times because of Mark Hamill’s greatness, despite how much I don’t like how Luke was portrayed.

The prequels are garbage though. I've watched them over and over to see if they get better, but they get worse. RotS is decent, not amazing but decent. But it's so tonally dark that it ****s on Lucas's core belief that Star Wars is for kids, can't imagine selling that line for years (and really it is true, even the darkest movie to date being Empire wasn't as dark as RotS which featured ANakin pulling a lightsaber on younglings (including Lucas's kid) and hologram footage of him killing them (guessing live footage would have resultedin a PG13 rating) Anakin's burning and dismemberment, very graphic use of force lightning on Mace Windu, decapitation of Dooku, burning of the Jedi Temple, choking pregnant Padme, and so much more.

The only way the story of the prequels was redeemed was through other media. Books, and especially The Clone Wars TV show. It made it clear that what Lucas wanted to do with the prequels couldn't be done in a matter of 2 hours and change, it needed a lot of time. It made the political back and forth tolerable, not a boring delay in the movie. It added so much depth to Anakin and Padme, not just their relationships, but their characters as well.

[zitothebrave]

Prequels could've been legitimately great films—something I was reflecting on the other day when I was trying to explain the textual release-history and conceptual broad-strokes of Star Wars (the overall enterprise) to my girlfriend (who took me to see both Rogue One and The Last Jedi, but hasn't really sat down and watched any of the other films). Significantly, the idea of a proud democratic republic falling into torpor and seeing both its weaknesses and greatest strengths deployed against it, to its ultimate dark autocratic downfall, is a powerful arc (and one that's even more relevant today than ten years ago).

Sadly, they simply weren't well-executed. Dialogue was stilted and bad; acting was mostly as fluid as cement, and mostly bad; pod race sequence ruined the pacing of the first film, and is still unforgivable; yoda lightsaber duel in Attack is less commonly derided, but for me even more unconscionable, fan-servicey, over-CGI'd, and unforgivable than the pod race (and really seems more Disney than any of the actual Disney-produced films). I've never rewatched Revenge of the Sith, so I can't comment critically on that one—I saw it in an air-conditioned tent at Bonnaroo 2006, and surprisingly really liked it, but I'd eaten a handful of mushrooms (among other consumption) a few hours before, so I feel there are mitigating circumstances to my gloss of that film.

I think the prequels story in broad strokes is fine. But the execution was terrible. Fix it easy enough a few ways. But mainly it has to do with deleting episode 1. Aside from Darth Maul, and Qui Gon who both die, it adds nothing to the Trilogy. Gungans are terrible. Anakin's backstory takes so long and doesn't really add that much. It could have been handled offscreen much better.

[The Chosen One]

I

Prequels could've been legitimately great films—something I was reflecting on the other day when I was trying to explain the textual release-history and conceptual broad-strokes of Star Wars (the overall enterprise) to my girlfriend (who took me to see both Rogue One and The Last Jedi, but hasn't really sat down and watched any of the other films). Significantly, the idea of a proud democratic republic falling into torpor and seeing both its weaknesses and greatest strengths deployed against it, to its ultimate dark autocratic downfall, is a powerful arc (and one that's even more relevant today than ten years ago).

Sadly, they simply weren't well-executed. Dialogue was stilted and bad; acting was mostly as fluid as cement, and mostly bad; pod race sequence ruined the pacing of the first film, and is still unforgivable; yoda lightsaber duel in Attack is less commonly derided, but for me even more unconscionable, fan-servicey, over-CGI'd, and unforgivable than the pod race (and really seems more Disney than any of the actual Disney-produced films). I've never rewatched Revenge of the Sith, so I can't comment critically on that one—I saw it in an air-conditioned tent at Bonnaroo 2006, and surprisingly really liked it, but I'd eaten a handful of mushrooms (among other consumption) a few hours before, so I feel there are mitigating circumstances to my gloss of that film.

jpx I will indulge your post since I know you can appreciate abstract cinema probably more than zeets can with your Criterion Tastes.

The dialogue and acting in the prequels is romanticiziig old school movies from the 30’s and 40’s where those things were a bit more overexaggerated. Not saying I like or dislike the choice but a lot of people need to understand that first.

I’ve always justified Yoda’s lightsaber battling as simply him being a vessel for the Force. His power levels aren’t necessarily increasing he’s just allowing himself to be one with the Force via concentration. I don’t think it’s anymore outlandish now that we’ve seen Snoke and Luke use the Force to manipulate projections and space-time (something which I’m still really eh about).

There were some deleted scenes in all three of the prequels that dealt with more of the political side. In Sith especially there are a few deleted scenes between Padme and other Senators confronting Chancellor about his increased power. I would have liked to have seen those scenes make the final cut but it is what it is.

As for CGI there were a ton of sets used in the prequels. Lots of practical effects and sets. The CGI may look dated on a lot of it but I can’t fault Lucas for being a pioneer and forcing the industry in that direction. When you look at the beautiful visuals Garett Edwards did for Rogue One we couldn’t have come this far if someone like Lucas had not thrust it onto his big blockbusters. It’s so easy to demean the cgi in prequels when comparing them to 7-8-R1 when it’s at least a 15 year gap in technology.

Over the years I’ve more and more let go of what I want to see in a movie and try to see more of what the director wanted me to see. And it’s allowed me to enjoy a lot more movies than when I was younger. It doesn’t absolve the director of every issue I have. But it’s one of the reasons I’m like 1 of 10 people in this world that enjoy Batman v. Superman and Justice League more than Marvel stuff these days.

Ive said a few times in this thread that The Last Jedi was entertaining and Hamill was excellent. But there was a lot of hit and miss in this movie as well. I can appreciate the effort Rian did in terms of filmmaking and still criticize the things about Luke. Especially with Luke being arguably the most important character in the history of the franchise. I don’t view the Force Awakens aa highly as others because it didn’t take risks. Same ole same ole same ole same ole just for a new generation. The Last Jedi took risks but I felt some of them fell flat. Mainly because of how much it just throws away what TFA built as well as continuity from the OT.

[Jaw]

Zeets it's pointless in arguing with you. It's been well documented on here how much you trash the prequels and think so lowly of Lucas when it favors your argument.

Lots of people are trying to like The Last Jedi just because it's new and fresh. But it does so many things to make TFA useless as well as the original trilogy that everyone loves.

Luke is not a coward. 4-6 he did everything he could to bring Vader to the light, going so much as willing to die if Anakin could be brought back. The never quit, never give up mentality was thrown away in Episode 8. He was afraid of the Darkness in Ben. He was 30 years older, 30 years wiser, 30 years stronger, 30 years more in tune with the Force. Yet, he just pretty much said welp, Snoke twisted Ben's mind. I'm his Uncle but there's nothing I can do about it so might as well quit and slaughter my own nephew in his sleep?

You mean he didn't consult Force Ghost Yoda or Force Ghost Kenobi or even Force Ghost Anakin to share his feelings and thoughts on Ben's mind being twisted? He took it upon himself to just end Ben's life right then and there?

I understand now why Hamill has publicly said in the last year he strongly disagreed with Rian's writing and vision for Luke, because Hamill knows Luke better than anyone and his character was essentially wasted.

And let's not even talk about the forced humor that is cringeworthy and ruins serious moments in the movie. That has Disney written all over it. Because it's the same forced humor that's put in Marvel movies and other studios are doing it now too because they feel it's the trendy thing to do. It's insulting to the audience and fans when you have a serious scene that is supposed to carry emotional weight and then you insert Comedian Luke Skywalker to make the crowd laugh just because.

The best explanation yet of why I hated Episode 8. I hope JJ can salvage something from this disaster to end the 3rd trilogy on a high note, but I don't feel like he's been left with much.

Someone told me Rian is already under contract to do several more SW films. Can that be true? After this debacle?

[The Chosen One]

The best explanation yet of why I hated Episode 8. I hope JJ can salvage something from this disaster to end the 3rd trilogy on a high note, but I don't feel like he's been left with much.

Someone told me Rian is already under contract to do several more SW films. Can that be true? After this debacle?

Disney is creating a new Star Wars trilogy of brand new characters based in another galaxy that has nothing to do with the characters in this saga. Rian was tapped to be in charge of the new trilogy. Think he’s directing all 3 as well.

[zitothebrave]

Disney is creating a new Star Wars trilogy of brand new characters based in another galaxy that has nothing to do with the characters in this saga. Rian was tapped to be in charge of the new trilogy. Think he’s directing all 3 as well.

They never said if Johnson was in charge of a series trilogy or something different. Personally I hope they go and do an Old Republic trilogy.

[50PoundHead]

Saw the movie on Christmas Day with wife, stepdaughter, step-son-in-law, and step-grandchildren (ages 6 and 8). Thought it was pretty good. I'm not as steeped in the lore as a lot of you are, so I am not astute enough to pick up any contradictions. But Luke's exit was similar (at least to me) as Obi-Wan's in that he sacrificed himself. Nice to see Yoda again (although in specter form). I think Rey being from humble beginnings is a good thing. Didn't have a problem with the Porgs. A marked improvement over Jar Jar Binks and the Ewoks. As for the humor part, think back to the first movie (now Episode 4) with the Cantina scene and the ride down and into the trash chute. One thing that I thought subsequent episodes lacked was the whimsy of the first movie and I didn't mind a bit of it coming back in this episode.

[Dalyn]

[The Chosen One]

Seen for the 5th time tonight.

The more I watch the more I love Hamill's performance.

The more I watch the more pissed off I am at what they did to Luke's character.