Star Wars Discussion Thread (Spoilers Inside)

[The Chosen One]

I mean it didn't really pose any questions about Snoke. The questions posed about Snoke were what wasn't known about him. And it's why I hate 9 so much. All we had to know about Snoke in the context of a story about Rey and Ren is that he was Ren's master. We didn't know jack squat about Palpatine in the OT. He was only referred to as the Emperor. He was later expanded upon. I think what TFA did well was start to set up a new trilogy but getting the important characters front and center. Killing off Han Solo was necessary and aside from it being a "waste" of having him in the film I wish it happened earlier. I wish they killed off Han earlier on.

ANyway the issue with 7 was the writing painted Johnson in a bit of a corner as it asked a lot of questions, and important questions, that he had to resolve. ANd he did, unlike JJ he resolved his questions. You leave ep 8 with a clear picture of the state of the story and universe. That doesn't happen in 7.

Honestly, I think you can put episode 8 as basically a stand alone film and it's fine. That's why it's special. You could watch the OT and 8 and not really feel left out. It hits all the important beats, Kylo killed Han, his father, and is Leia's son. Rey is a nobody who's destiny is connected to Kylo Ren, all these things are in the movie.

I mean I can understand people who are disappointed in the sequel trilogy and for me that falls on 9. If 9 wasn't a ****show attempt at Endgame, then the sequel trilogy would have been much better off. The plot holes in episode 9 are ****ing miserable.

So what you're saying was, because Palps had no backstory in the OT, we should have just played the same tune again and Snoke not have any backstory... I think the Sith Lord that turned a Skywalker child to the darkside and made him his lieutenant, people would like to know about it.


9 has plenty of plotholes, but it's basically fan service. So I grade it as fan service. My only gripe is that it wasn't MORE FAN SERVICE. Episode 7 pretends to be a fresh new movie when it's really not. It was the safest possible movie Disney could have made and they were rewarded with it. Make a safe movie and destroy box office records, or not play it safe and maybe not get a billion.

[Metaphysicist]

I mean it didn't really pose any questions about Snoke. The questions posed about Snoke were what wasn't known about him. And it's why I hate 9 so much. All we had to know about Snoke in the context of a story about Rey and Ren is that he was Ren's master. We didn't know jack squat about Palpatine in the OT. He was only referred to as the Emperor. He was later expanded upon. I think what TFA did well was start to set up a new trilogy but getting the important characters front and center. Killing off Han Solo was necessary and aside from it being a "waste" of having him in the film I wish it happened earlier. I wish they killed off Han earlier on.

ANyway the issue with 7 was the writing painted Johnson in a bit of a corner as it asked a lot of questions, and important questions, that he had to resolve. ANd he did, unlike JJ he resolved his questions. You leave ep 8 with a clear picture of the state of the story and universe. That doesn't happen in 7.

Honestly, I think you can put episode 8 as basically a stand alone film and it's fine. That's why it's special. You could watch the OT and 8 and not really feel left out. It hits all the important beats, Kylo killed Han, his father, and is Leia's son. Rey is a nobody who's destiny is connected to Kylo Ren, all these things are in the movie.

I mean I can understand people who are disappointed in the sequel trilogy and for me that falls on 9. If 9 wasn't a ****show attempt at Endgame, then the sequel trilogy would have been much better off. The plot holes in episode 9 are ****ing miserable.

You can't compare the lack of explanation in 7 to the lack of explanation in the original trilogy. There is a completely different context. When the emperor is introduced initially you go "well, it's an empire, so I guess an emperor makes sense." When Snoke and the New Order just appear in a universe we know a million things about as even more Empiry Empire with an even more super superlaser, you think "Wait a minute, who is this guy? Where does he come from? Where does he fit in the pre-existing context? Who are all these people? Where did they get the resources for this? How could any of this happen?"

The point is, Snoke (and etc.) was a huge unexplained open question, where I left the theater thinking "huh, I wonder what the deal there is; I guess it will be okay if they can explain it." I went and looked at my reaction from this very thread, and here's what I said at the time:

I really enjoyed the movie, but it also left me kinda disappointed, if that makes sense. I don't think I will really know how I feel about this one until I see what they explain in the following movies.

Essentially, the movie was a lot of fun, but the writing was AWFUL. They managed to somehow make an exact copy of ANH, but still make everything that happens completely nonsensical. Obviously way better than the prequels, but it was bittersweet in that I left the theater feeling like it wasn't quite right.

It was a fun movie at the time, but I like it much less now that the subsequent movies have really made no real effort to actually explain the poor setup. That's all it ended up being; an extremely poorly written ANH clone with no plan and no substance behind it.

I agree 8 would be better as a stand alone film. Abrams should have just made his 3 and let Johnson do a stand alone or the next 3.

[Tapate50]

You saying 8 was horrible just invalidates anything else you say. Just saying.

Most people agree with him and not you

[thewupk]

You saying 8 was horrible just invalidates anything else you say. Just saying.

That's like your opinion, man.

[thewupk]

7 is the exact copy of 4. That’s why I can’t give it to much love.

It's Star Wars. It's like poetry, it rhymes.

[zitothebrave]

So what you're saying was, because Palps had no backstory in the OT, we should have just played the same tune again and Snoke not have any backstory... I think the Sith Lord that turned a Skywalker child to the darkside and made him his lieutenant, people would like to know about it.


9 has plenty of plotholes, but it's basically fan service. So I grade it as fan service. My only gripe is that it wasn't MORE FAN SERVICE. Episode 7 pretends to be a fresh new movie when it's really not. It was the safest possible movie Disney could have made and they were rewarded with it. Make a safe movie and destroy box office records, or not play it safe and maybe not get a billion.

Point one is where I hate the direction JJ took it. Why did Snoke have to be Sith? Sith is basically a religious order. It's not the dark side. He wasn't Darth Kylo Ren or Darth Snoke. They should have ditched the Sith entirely. Which is what it seemed like JJ was doing in 7 since again it wasn't Darth Kylo Ren or Darth Snoke. There was no reason to have Sith. The whole point of the prequels was Anakin being the chosen one, to destroy the Sith. There was no reason to bring them back.

Disney did not win. On a more robust budget than the Last Jedi, The Rise of Skywalker made less money. By a lot. Hard to tell but it seems like it's the 3rd worst grossing Star Wars film of all time with only Attack of the Clones and Solo being below it.

[zitothebrave]

Most people agree with him and not you

If most people agreed with it, then why did it make more than Episode 9?

[The Chosen One]

Point one is where I hate the direction JJ took it. Why did Snoke have to be Sith? Sith is basically a religious order. It's not the dark side. He wasn't Darth Kylo Ren or Darth Snoke. They should have ditched the Sith entirely. Which is what it seemed like JJ was doing in 7 since again it wasn't Darth Kylo Ren or Darth Snoke. There was no reason to have Sith. The whole point of the prequels was Anakin being the chosen one, to destroy the Sith. There was no reason to bring them back.

Disney did not win. On a more robust budget than the Last Jedi, The Rise of Skywalker made less money. By a lot. Hard to tell but it seems like it's the 3rd worst grossing Star Wars film of all time with only Attack of the Clones and Solo being below it.

I mean... it's similar to pretty much all the Death Eaters in Harry Potter world being from house slytherin.

Sith aren't the darkside but they embrace the darkside as their own.

[The Chosen One]

If most people agreed with it, then why did it make more than Episode 9?

Come on zeets this is thethe level thinking here.

It made a lot up front because people were excited to see Luke's return to the big screen for the first time in decades. They were excited because of how TFA was fan service and ended on a cliffhanger. The title Last Jedi sounded badass and the trailers were hype. People were thinking Last Jedi meant Luke was gonna go on a Loganesque last stand. There were all sorts of rumors and theories, from the knights of ren would go to atchtoo and battle Luke and Rey, to Luke would confront Snoke head on, to all sorts of things.

The Last Jedi was supposed to be the fresh new chapter since TFA was a greatest hits fan service movie.

Rise of Skywalker underperformed because of people being burned out and displeased with TLJ.

[zitothebrave]

You can't compare the lack of explanation in 7 to the lack of explanation in the original trilogy. There is a completely different context. When the emperor is introduced initially you go "well, it's an empire, so I guess an emperor makes sense." When Snoke and the New Order just appear in a universe we know a million things about as even more Empiry Empire with an even more super superlaser, you think "Wait a minute, who is this guy? Where does he come from? Where does he fit in the pre-existing context? Who are all these people? Where did they get the resources for this? How could any of this happen?"

The point is, Snoke (and etc.) was a huge unexplained open question, where I left the theater thinking "huh, I wonder what the deal there is; I guess it will be okay if they can explain it." I went and looked at my reaction from this very thread, and here's what I said at the time: .

But why though? why does there need to be more? Again what info is there in any other trilogy? How did the republic come into existence? How did the Jedi Order build a grand temple on the capital world of Coruscant? How did the rebel alliance get any of it's funding? How did the Empire rule the Galaxy? Why aren't everyone rebelling against the Empire? I could go on, there's tons of things that weren't explained in the films. They were expanded on in other mediums like film, books, comics, etc. Snoke could easily be a very wealthy and powerful dark side user who existed in the Unknown Regions who took over the remnants of the Empire. There's a number of things it coudl have been. It doens't really matter. Snoke isn't a star of the film, he's there to be the trainer of Kylo Ren. He's there to be the Emperor to Vader in the OT.

I do mostly agree that the writing of 7 is kind of all over the place. The whole Luke MacGuffin was abit of a drag all information considered.

[zitothebrave]

Come on zeets this is thethe level thinking here.

It made a lot up front because people were excited to see Luke's return to the big screen for the first time in decades. They were excited because of how TFA was fan service and ended on a cliffhanger. The title Last Jedi sounded badass and the trailers were hype. People were thinking Last Jedi meant Luke was gonna go on a Loganesque last stand. There were all sorts of rumors and theories, from the knights of ren would go to atchtoo and battle Luke and Rey, to Luke would confront Snoke head on, to all sorts of things.

The Last Jedi was supposed to be the fresh new chapter since TFA was a greatest hits fan service movie.

Rise of Skywalker underperformed because of people being burned out and displeased with TLJ.

That's some thethe ass logic.

If that was true of TLJ then why did it have a pretty standard opening weekend percentage compared to other films? Lower than films like Endgame, and exactly the same basically as Rise of Skywalker. So how if the onyl reason people went to see TLJ how did it continue to grow afterwards.

What you're describing is a bunch fo ****ty fanfics that were written with no basis.

[The Chosen One]

That's some thethe ass logic.

If that was true of TLJ then why did it have a pretty standard opening weekend percentage compared to other films? Lower than films like Endgame, and exactly the same basically as Rise of Skywalker. So how if the onyl reason people went to see TLJ how did it continue to grow afterwards.

What you're describing is a bunch fo ****ty fanfics that were written with no basis.

Because Jumanji was released a week earlier and did surprisingly well at the box office. It took close to a billion when people thought it would be a bust.

[zitothebrave]

I mean... it's similar to pretty much all the Death Eaters in Harry Potter world being from house slytherin.

Sith aren't the darkside but they embrace the darkside as their own.

But they don't need to be. The Sith should have been destroyed as per the Chosen One prophecy.

And there were plenty of non-Sith dark side users. BEcause again, it was a relgious order. There were dark side users in canon. Asajj Ventress, Mother Talzin, Savage Opress, the Inquisitors, the Son of Mortis, and I'm forgetting a few.

[The Chosen One]

The Last Jedi also had a very successful Rogue One come out the year previous. RoS had both TLJ and Solo preceding it. People were both burned out and dissatisfied with the series after those two. Unlike TLJ having TFA and R1 coming before it.

[zitothebrave]

Because Jumanji was released a week earlier and did surprisingly well at the box office. It took close to a billion when people thought it would be a bust.

Ain't no way Jumanji should derail any star wars film. Especially not in December. GTFO

[zitothebrave]

The Last Jedi also had a very successful Rogue One come out the year previous. RoS had both TLJ and Solo preceding it. People were both burned out and dissatisfied with the series after those two. Unlike TLJ having TFA and R1 coming before it.

Right so TLJ kept selling tickets because of TFA and R1.

I look forward to in 10 years or so when you've had time to gain some perspective that you'll realize how superior TLJ is to all the other prequel series.

[The Chosen One]

Ain't no way Jumanji should derail any star wars film. Especially not in December. GTFO

How many movies do a billion.

Jumanji finished just short of a billion. It had box office legs for months.

[The Chosen One]

Right so TLJ kept selling tickets because of TFA and R1.

I look forward to in 10 years or so when you've had time to gain some perspective that you'll realize how superior TLJ is to all the other prequel series.

I've actually watched the last jedi the most in the last year compared to the others.

But it's a condensed version where I skip rose and finn cheese, and only watch anything relevant to luke rey kylo and snoke.

The rest of the movie is a big stink.

I enjoy what parts of TLJ that i watch because of Hamill, not because of Luke. Snoke is also fantastic since he isn't a projection.

[Krgrecw]

https://www.wired.com/2015/05/inside-ilm/

If you like Star Wars that’s a must read article.


George Lucas is probably the most important person in the history of American film and that article sums it up nicely

[Metaphysicist]

If most people agreed with it, then why did it make more than Episode 9?

9 is a terrible movie. Making more than that doesn't really mean anything.

I don't hate TLJ, but just saying.