Star Wars Discussion Thread (Spoilers Inside)

[Metaphysicist]

But why though? why does there need to be more? Again what info is there in any other trilogy? How did the republic come into existence? How did the Jedi Order build a grand temple on the capital world of Coruscant? How did the rebel alliance get any of it's funding? How did the Empire rule the Galaxy? Why aren't everyone rebelling against the Empire? I could go on, there's tons of things that weren't explained in the films. They were expanded on in other mediums like film, books, comics, etc. Snoke could easily be a very wealthy and powerful dark side user who existed in the Unknown Regions who took over the remnants of the Empire. There's a number of things it coudl have been. It doens't really matter. Snoke isn't a star of the film, he's there to be the trainer of Kylo Ren. He's there to be the Emperor to Vader in the OT.

I do mostly agree that the writing of 7 is kind of all over the place. The whole Luke MacGuffin was abit of a drag all information considered.

Why do I want movies to make sense based on the preexisting universe? I dunno, that just seems better to me. Call me crazy.

Your examples are all world-building in a new space (or boring). That is fundamentally different.

[zitothebrave]

How many movies do a billion.

Jumanji finished just short of a billion. It had box office legs for months.

But this fails the sniff test because the original Jumanji came out with TLJ and did better than the Sequel, as is common because sequels often do worse than originals But anthologies tend to sell more than the second installment.

RoS broke a trend.

Star wars domestic gross by trilogy
OT
ANH - 461M
ESB - 290M
RotJ - 309M

Prequels
TPM - 475M
AotC - 310M
RotS - 380M

Sequels
TFA - 937M
TLJ - 620M
RoS - 515M

See it? You can't blame TLJ, if AotC didn't bury RotS, then there's no way TLJ should have hurt RoS, and with TLJ coming out with the OG Jumanji, there's no complaint about Jumanji that can exist. You're grasping at straws.

[zitothebrave]

9 is a terrible movie. Making more than that doesn't really mean anything.

I mean it does when it comes to money. People tend ot talk with it. The problem is that people fall into echo chambers. And in said echo chambers they think their opinions are the vast majority because they're only hearing like minded people say the same thing. Box office gross is one way to directly compare, especially within the domestic trends of Star Wars where the second movie has been the weakest domestically of all 3 movies in both the OT and Prequels. Generally speaking endings of movie sagas fare well. Harry Potter's top gross was Deathly Hallows part 2. Return of the King, Endgame, and probably more I could find but m oo lay to. Generally in the US a saga ending is a huge box office result.

If more people thought RoS was better than TLJ it would have made more money in the box office.

[zitothebrave]

Why do I want movies to make sense based on the preexisting universe? I dunno, that just seems better to me. Call me crazy.

Your examples are all world-building in a new space (or boring). That is fundamentally different.

But in a way this is world building in a new space. Until RoS we don't visit an OT planet. Sure JJ just remade planets that were like the originals, but it's Star Wars, Lucas did the same thing too. Geonosis is just bug Tatooine. And even then the OT planets are just book ends for the film (and the Mustafar one is confusing AF)

The First Order comes from the Unknown Region, which has almost never been visited in a major way in Star Wars. I think you're being nitpicky for the sake of being nitpicky with the general direction of making a large scale threat.

I just don't know why it matters that Snoke is super established.

[Tapate50]

If most people agreed with it, then why did it make more than Episode 9?

Because 8 pissed people like me off so badly, I didn't want to spend money on 9? Legit left the theater pretty annoyed at the movie.

Just for grins, we have a tiny sample here where basically everyone disagrees with you. What 5-6 posters that chime in on this thread and its 5-1 and you won't even acknowledge that its probably a sampling of the truth for the general public really does lend you to some SW lunatic.

[Tapate50]

But in a way this is world building in a new space. Until RoS we don't visit an OT planet. Sure JJ just remade planets that were like the originals, but it's Star Wars, Lucas did the same thing too. Geonosis is just bug Tatooine. And even then the OT planets are just book ends for the film (and the Mustafar one is confusing AF)

The First Order comes from the Unknown Region, which has almost never been visited in a major way in Star Wars. I think you're being nitpicky for the sake of being nitpicky with the general direction of making a large scale threat.

I just don't know why it matters that Snoke is super established.

If its the unknown region, someone should probably go there just to make sure no ones building a ton of imperial starships from the original trilogy without factories.

[Tapate50]

I completely forget how insane Zito is with this thread about once a year until I come back here to discuss the newest movie out, and then I get a small dose and leave for another year.

[The Chosen One]

Way different times.

AoTC didn't effect ROTS, because many people assumed Revenge of the Sith would be the very last star wars movie, since Lucas said he was retiring from the series afterwards.

Also was in an era pre-streaming. People didn't spend money on Netflix, Disney+ and other streaming services for entertainment. Movies were in theaters longer, and didn't come out on home video for at least 8 months. Now movies leave theaters and are available for blu-ray or streaming in less than 3 months after it leaves the theater.

[zitothebrave]

Because 8 pissed people like me off so badly, I didn't want to spend money on 9? Legit left the theater pretty annoyed at the movie.

Just for grins, we have a tiny sample here where basically everyone disagrees with you. What 5-6 posters that chime in on this thread and its 5-1 and you won't even acknowledge that its probably a sampling of the truth for the general public really does lend you to some SW lunatic.

Echo chambers are a real thing. The majority of posters here don't like a lot of Star Wars.

Here's a hint, if you don't like the Sequels, or Prequels, and haven't watched any star wars aside from the movies when you were a kid, you'e not a Star Wars fan, you liked star wars as a kid.

[zitothebrave]

Way different times.

AoTC didn't effect ROTS, because many people assumed Revenge of the Sith would be the very last star wars movie, since Lucas said he was retiring from the series afterwards.

Also was in an era pre-streaming. People didn't spend money on Netflix, Disney+ and other streaming services for entertainment. Movies were in theaters longer, and didn't come out on home video for at least 8 months. Now movies leave theaters and are available for blu-ray or streaming in less than 3 months after it leaves the theater.

Convenient excuses. Doesn't explain ESB and RotJ.

[zitothebrave]

If its the unknown region, someone should probably go there just to make sure no ones building a ton of imperial starships from the original trilogy without factories.

This comment is so far beyond stupid, it doesn't merit an intelligent response. So here's a sarcastic one.

Durrrrr how did the whole Rebel Alliance hide on a moon, or a planet.

[thewupk]

Zito, Episode 8 had horrible legs for a December movie. Granted 9 was only marginally better as it wasn't a good movie at all either. You can't really compare the legs of a movie in December to those released in the summer block buster time frame.

Ep 8 beat out 9 due to the opening weekend. And it should be obvious why 8 started out with a great OW. Once the word got out to what kind of movie it was it fell pretty hard. 9's OW suffered due to how bad 8 was and Solo certainly didn't help it in anyway. So it's OW was muted pretty hard for a Star Wars movie and when word came out it wasn't good either then it's legs were similarly trash.

If you can't break a 3X multiplier in December then fans don't like your movie, period. Lucas Film and Disney failed.

[zitothebrave]

The issue with your logic is that RoS and TLJ had the same tracts after OW. So RoS after opening weekend made 177M opening domestic and 338 over the rest of it's run. TLJ made 220 opening weekend and 400M over the rest of its run. By your logic of the difference being OW, than all TLJ should have made is 558M domestic. Not 620.

RoS wasn't screwing lambasted by fake troll reviews and still failed.

[thewupk]

The issue with your logic is that RoS and TLJ had the same tracts after OW. So RoS after opening weekend made 177M opening domestic and 338 over the rest of it's run. TLJ made 220 opening weekend and 400M over the rest of its run. By your logic of the difference being OW, than all TLJ should have made is 558M domestic. Not 620.

RoS wasn't screwing lambasted by fake troll reviews and still failed.

I'm sorry but a movies legs are determined by it's multiplier not raw dollars. Both were sub 3X which is horrible for a December release.

I'm not trying to saw Ep 9 was good in anyway. It failed just like 8 did at the box office. Personally I liked 9 more than 8 and thought 8 was just a horrible Star Wars movie.

The only major difference between their box office runs was the opening weekend. 8 was coming off TFA and Rogue One which were hits and it's OW benefited from it. 9 was coming of TLJ and Solo so it's OW suffered.

But the fact remains both failed at the box office all things considered. They had great OW because it's Star Wars and the hype of seeing Luke again was there for Ep 8. But after that? The legs will tell you what people thought of the movie and it failed to deliver in both cases.

[zitothebrave]

But again, if only the opening week mattered, why did it keep making more?

Could perhaps the fact that it's the first Star Wars film to not have an A Cinema Score be the real reason why it sucked at the BO?

I look forward to the future when the casuals are gone and everyone realizes that holy **** the Last Jedi is the only good film from this saga. And TLJ wasn't horrible, it was a reboot, that did nothing to develop it's new characters and made a few really bad directional choices.

[Tapate50]

This comment is so far beyond stupid, it doesn't merit an intelligent response. So here's a sarcastic one.

Durrrrr how did the whole Rebel Alliance hide on a moon, or a planet.

It was trolling.

And everyone here is a Star Wars fan. And they get opinions too.

[Metaphysicist]

But in a way this is world building in a new space. Until RoS we don't visit an OT planet. Sure JJ just remade planets that were like the originals, but it's Star Wars, Lucas did the same thing too. Geonosis is just bug Tatooine. And even then the OT planets are just book ends for the film (and the Mustafar one is confusing AF)

The First Order comes from the Unknown Region, which has almost never been visited in a major way in Star Wars. I think you're being nitpicky for the sake of being nitpicky with the general direction of making a large scale threat.

I just don't know why it matters that Snoke is super established.

I don't think it is nitpicky to ask that the events of a movie make sense in the context of prior movies. It's not just that the First Order and is a "copy" (though they are which is boring). It's that they don't make any sense based on the prior world building, and there is no attempt to reconcile that fact (until 9, which gives a very dumb explanation).

[Metaphysicist]

Echo chambers are a real thing. The majority of posters here don't like a lot of Star Wars.

Here's a hint, if you don't like the Sequels, or Prequels, and haven't watched any star wars aside from the movies when you were a kid, you'e not a Star Wars fan, you liked star wars as a kid.

I am definitely less of a Star Wars fan than I was as a kid. I was a huge, unbelievable Star Wars nerd who loved the (in retrospect bad) special edition re-releases. I had complete sets of all the micromachine dudes and ships including those based on expanded universe novels, which of course I'd also read.

But the prequels were a profound disappointment; those alone basically broke my little nerdy heart. I had some hope when Disney bought the brand but they have turned it into such a transparently-corporate incessant content grind that it has really sapped whatever remaining joy the franchise held for me.

I enjoy the good parts (Mandalorian, Rogue One), but being a "Star Wars" fan no longer really means anything to me. It's just a corporate brand, so what's is the point of identifying with it?

[zitothebrave]

I don't think it is nitpicky to ask that the events of a movie make sense in the context of prior movies. It's not just that the First Order and is a "copy" (though they are which is boring). It's that they don't make any sense based on the prior world building, and there is no attempt to reconcile that fact (until 9, which gives a very dumb explanation).

But do they need to? I mean why can't that just be handled in other media? We've always been willing to accept that in time passed things can build. There was 20 years of events, possibly more. If the First Order was for example a military faction in the Unknown Regions that absorbed old Imp factions, or was birthed from old Imp. Just like a large Rebel Alliance was created from the remnants of the old CIS mixed with new sympathizers. Wouldn't it make sense that the previously much larger Empire wouldn't have some form of escape contingency?

One of the core importance of film storytelling is you have a set amount of time. You have to accept that things happen off screen and don't need to be stated explicitly. That's what Novels are for. If you wanted more then consider the poor novelization of The Force Awakens.

[zitothebrave]

I am definitely less of a Star Wars fan than I was as a kid. I was a huge, unbelievable Star Wars nerd who loved the (in retrospect bad) special edition re-releases. I had complete sets of all the micromachine dudes and ships including those based on expanded universe novels, which of course I'd also read.

But the prequels were a profound disappointment; those alone basically broke my little nerdy heart. I had some hope when Disney bought the brand but they have turned it into such a transparently-corporate incessant content grind that it has really sapped whatever remaining joy the franchise held for me.

I enjoy the good parts (Mandalorian, Rogue One), but being a "Star Wars" fan no longer really means anything to me. It's just a corporate brand, so what's is the point of identifying with it?

Star Wars has always been a corporate brand. Lucas wanted Merchandising from jumpstreet and Star Wars Merchandising on a poor deal funded ESB and RotJ. Lucas didn't announce the prequels until his deal with Hasbro (after they bought) Kenner lapsed, coincidence? probably not. What Disney is doing is brilliant in a way. It's treating Star Wars like a universe, but instead of limiting that novels like in the Lucas era, we're getting all kinds of media, novels, comics, movies, etc.

BTW there's nothing wrong with liking the Special Edition Re-Releases. While some of it is bad (mainly the edits to ANH) some of it is good. If you skip Jedi Rocks and hold your pride at the end of RotJ the visual and audio improvements are great. ESB didn't have many major changes aside from Boba's VO (which doesn't make sense) and Palpatine instead of Monkey Eyes (which makes sense). it's not the end of the world. I wish George wasn't so embarrassed of his original releases and we could live in a world where we could see the originals as well as his edits. Kind of liek Blade Runner, Theatrical, home release,directors cut then final cut. I wish Lucas did that rather than throw out the bathwater.