Star Wars Discussion Thread (Spoilers Inside)

[striker42]

Fortress Inquisitorius was in Jedi Fallen Order.

Don't get me wrong, I'm down with more exploring of Inquisitors as they have a good potential. Loved them in the Vader comics.

I'm only considering the movies and shows. There hasn't been a deep dive there at all and it's an aspect that could support a show.

Still, I want an Old Republic show or trilogy more than anything.

[zitothebrave]

I agree, I want old republic or something jumping into the future. I think we've seen the promise of a more limited scope of a show/Movie where they only focus ona few planets.

[striker42]

I agree, I want old republic or something jumping into the future. I think we've seen the promise of a more limited scope of a show/Movie where they only focus ona few planets.

I actually would like to see a massive scope trilogy. Imagine Lord of the Rings but focusing on the Jedi-Sith War.

[Krgrecw]

I ****ing hope Disney spends time and builds up Thrawn, gets him over and not job him out like they did with Snoke.

[zitothebrave]

I ****ing hope Disney spends time and builds up Thrawn, gets him over and not job him out like they did with Snoke.

Thrawn has his own book series. He's been in animation, he's supposed to be in upcoming live action.

Disney has built thrawn up plenty. One could argue we've seen more thrawn in the last 6 years than in any other point in Star Wars history

[striker42]

I heard an interesting take about Book of Boba Fett. The idea is that the problems the show had were largely the result of harsh COVID filming restrictions. They had to write the show in a way that limited the number of people who could be in a shot at one time. This also harmed the ability of actors to have chemistry with each other as they were often shooting different halves of the same scene at different times. It would explain some of the problems of that show. I really enjoyed it. It was a fun romp but it was well below The Mandalorian.

[Krgrecw]

Thrawn has his own book series. He's been in animation, he's supposed to be in upcoming live action.

Disney has built thrawn up plenty. One could argue we've seen more thrawn in the last 6 years than in any other point in Star Wars history

Majority of Star Wars fans haven’t read the comics, read the books or watch cartoons.

[zitothebrave]

Majority of Star Wars fans haven’t read the comics, read the books or watch cartoons.

By that logic the majority of Star Wars fans don't give 2 ****s about Thrawn then so how they build him up is irrelevant.

[Tapate50]

By that logic the majority of Star Wars fans don't give 2 ****s about Thrawn then so how they build him up is irrelevant.

Well the ****ty Snoke reviews would show otherwise

[zitothebrave]

Well the ****ty Snoke reviews would show otherwise

Fans don't know what they want. It's the common theme of anything Star Wars related. Ask majority of Star Wars fans who hate the prequels why they hate it. Odds are because it's too dialogue heavy is a leading cause. So they don't want too much exposition. But they want exposition when it comes to backstory of snoke, etc? Come on. Some rules of film, show not tell, accept that things happen off screen, and cut out things that don't really matter. What doesn't really matter is that we know who Snoke is. Snoke's purpose to the story is the corruptor and leader of Kylo Ren. In the classic star wars tale his job is to be the big bad for the hero to kill or the final obstacle for Kylo Ren to overcome depending on what direction you want to take the film.

So do we need a whole ass movie to set up who Mitth'raw'nuruodo is, or is seeing a competent villain who's both ruthless, efficient, and dangerous and accept that he's a dangerous mother****er who's job is to be dangerous to the heroes.

Again, consider the OT, what everyone considers the holy grail of star wars. What information do we know about these characters from the films.

1. Emperor Palpatine

2. Darth Vader

3. Grand Moff Tarkin

4. Yoda

5. Obi Wan Kenobi

So here's what you know.

1. Palpas was the big bad leader of the big bad empire. Most powerful darkside user, more powerful than Vader.

2. Vader. First film you know he killed Luke's father (sets up motive for Luke to act against him) second film you find out he's Luke's father, third film you find out a bit more about the emperor corrupting him.

3. Tarkin - Somehow outranks big powerful badguy who kills people. Why or how? Who knows.

4. Yoda - Superpowerful Jedi who trained Obi Wan

5. Obi Wan - Knew Luke's father. Was a jedi who fought in the clone wars.

What information is provided is minimal. Why people like these people is their actions on the screen, not because their massive backstories, those all came much later.

Snoke would have had the same thing if Star Wars fans weren't fickle idiots. Disney unfortunately screwed the pooch by not going with Trevorrow's script. Of course we've discussed ad nauseum about how they should have had an overarching script.

Imagine though instead we get Trevorrow's script, then later get Snoke's backstory in a show, comic, future film, etc.

[Tapate50]

Wow

[striker42]

Fans don't know what they want. It's the common theme of anything Star Wars related. Ask majority of Star Wars fans who hate the prequels why they hate it. Odds are because it's too dialogue heavy is a leading cause. So they don't want too much exposition. But they want exposition when it comes to backstory of snoke, etc? Come on. Some rules of film, show not tell, accept that things happen off screen, and cut out things that don't really matter. What doesn't really matter is that we know who Snoke is. Snoke's purpose to the story is the corruptor and leader of Kylo Ren. In the classic star wars tale his job is to be the big bad for the hero to kill or the final obstacle for Kylo Ren to overcome depending on what direction you want to take the film.

So do we need a whole ass movie to set up who Mitth'raw'nuruodo is, or is seeing a competent villain who's both ruthless, efficient, and dangerous and accept that he's a dangerous mother****er who's job is to be dangerous to the heroes.

Again, consider the OT, what everyone considers the holy grail of star wars. What information do we know about these characters from the films.

1. Emperor Palpatine

2. Darth Vader

3. Grand Moff Tarkin

4. Yoda

5. Obi Wan Kenobi

So here's what you know.

1. Palpas was the big bad leader of the big bad empire. Most powerful darkside user, more powerful than Vader.

2. Vader. First film you know he killed Luke's father (sets up motive for Luke to act against him) second film you find out he's Luke's father, third film you find out a bit more about the emperor corrupting him.

3. Tarkin - Somehow outranks big powerful badguy who kills people. Why or how? Who knows.

4. Yoda - Superpowerful Jedi who trained Obi Wan

5. Obi Wan - Knew Luke's father. Was a jedi who fought in the clone wars.

What information is provided is minimal. Why people like these people is their actions on the screen, not because their massive backstories, those all came much later.

Snoke would have had the same thing if Star Wars fans weren't fickle idiots. Disney unfortunately screwed the pooch by not going with Trevorrow's script. Of course we've discussed ad nauseum about how they should have had an overarching script.

Imagine though instead we get Trevorrow's script, then later get Snoke's backstory in a show, comic, future film, etc.

Snoke had a couple problems others you mention didn't. First and foremost, Snoke was introduced after a lot of canon had already been made. The original trilogy group didn't need to fit in anywhere in the canon as they were making it as they went. But there were 6 movies and a couple cartoons that fleshed out the world pretty well. It made Snoke's place in it something of a mystery as he didn't easily fit in anywhere. It's why a lot of people thought he might be a Plagueis returned from hiding. You don't just have and elderly, uber powerful dark side force user coming out of nowhere a few years after the Emperor died. It raises questions.

Another problem with Snoke is that his identity was intentionally teased being one of the mystery boxes JJ Abrams loves so much. He was such a mystery as I have already described and JJ Abrams played that up intentionally. He was then unceremoniously killed off and then given an unsatsifactory explanation in Rise of Skywalker. It was one of many things that made that trilogy choppy.

Compare Snoke to General Hux. Hux isn't an anomaly. He's essentially an imperial officer. That's all we need to know. It makes sense for there to be high ranking officers so Hux's backstory is unnecessary. The fact that Snoke didn't easily fit into canon meant fans were understandably in need of a backstory.

[zitothebrave]

Snoke had a couple problems others you mention didn't. First and foremost, Snoke was introduced after a lot of canon had already been made. The original trilogy group didn't need to fit in anywhere in the canon as they were making it as they went. But there were 6 movies and a couple cartoons that fleshed out the world pretty well. It made Snoke's place in it something of a mystery as he didn't easily fit in anywhere. It's why a lot of people thought he might be a Plagueis returned from hiding. You don't just have and elderly, uber powerful dark side force user coming out of nowhere a few years after the Emperor died. It raises questions.

Another problem with Snoke is that his identity was intentionally teased being one of the mystery boxes JJ Abrams loves so much. He was such a mystery as I have already described and JJ Abrams played that up intentionally. He was then unceremoniously killed off and then given an unsatsifactory explanation in Rise of Skywalker. It was one of many things that made that trilogy choppy.

Compare Snoke to General Hux. Hux isn't an anomaly. He's essentially an imperial officer. That's all we need to know. It makes sense for there to be high ranking officers so Hux's backstory is unnecessary. The fact that Snoke didn't easily fit into canon meant fans were understandably in need of a backstory.

There was a very easy snoke explanation. Look at Trevorrow's script. He could have been trained by Plagueis too much less what I think was the way Trevorrow went where he was seeking out the master of Plagueis.

Could also have been a more powerful darkside user as was hinted at in the Aftermath novels.

There were countless ways they could have gone.

[striker42]

There was a very easy snoke explanation. Look at Trevorrow's script. He could have been trained by Plagueis too much less what I think was the way Trevorrow went where he was seeking out the master of Plagueis.

Could also have been a more powerful darkside user as was hinted at in the Aftermath novels.

There were countless ways they could have gone.

Absolutely. There are lots of ways they could have gone with Snoke. Almost all would have been better than the way they went.

My only point was he was different than other characters in the OT in that the way he was introduced and the way he didn't easily fit into the universe made an on screen backstory necessary.

[zitothebrave]

Absolutely. There are lots of ways they could have gone with Snoke. Almost all would have been better than the way they went.

My only point was he was different than other characters in the OT in that the way he was introduced and the way he didn't easily fit into the universe made an on screen backstory necessary.

I mean it isn't fully necessary. Especially when it could be handled with one line "I knew Darth Sidious was looking for a powerful dark side user in the Unknown Regions, I assumed it was Snoke, but it was you" or "Snoke was my apprentice, he was clearly a failure as you bested him when he got cocky"

Reality is there wasn't the need for heavy backstory. But you needed a catch, the one JJ went with sucked. It was horrible.

[striker42]

I mean it isn't fully necessary. Especially when it could be handled with one line "I knew Darth Sidious was looking for a powerful dark side user in the Unknown Regions, I assumed it was Snoke, but it was you" or "Snoke was my apprentice, he was clearly a failure as you bested him when he got cocky"

Reality is there wasn't the need for heavy backstory. But you needed a catch, the one JJ went with sucked. It was horrible.

Again we have a problem of different directors with different visions for the films. JJ Abrams made Snoke a puzzle box intentionally. He wanted there to be lots of speculation around who Snoke was. That kind of stuff is one of Abrams calling cards.

Then Johnson takes over and unceremoniously kills Snoke off. That cuts off a lot of grand options for who Snoke can be. You don't make him Plageius or someone new and grand that turns canon on its head because revealing that after he was dead would make that incredibly unfulfilling. It would just be bad storytelling.

The problem is there still remains the unexplained mystery that was intentionally hyped up. If you make Snoke something like a mere apprentice then it's a huge letdown. So you're stuck between a rock and hard place. Two storytellers bickering with each other painted the Snoke storyline into a corner.

I don't think you could have a good resolution to Snoke after The Last Jedi. It was either going to be something that made you groan (like what we got) or it was going to be something that trivialized him which makes the mystery around him pointless.

This is the problem of starting a trilogy with no overarching story line and no single hand guiding all three movies.

[zitothebrave]

I largely agree with your points. But Snoke could be explained in short order. Which was the point.

Similar to Thrawn, you can do like 3 things to establish him. 1 show him being powerful and smart and whatnot. 2. Have him scream something about chiss ascendency and graduating early and at top of his class in imperial academy. 3. A simple mention of the past of being in with Palps, working with Vader and Anakin. whatever. Just a qucik reference to the books that people can read or read abotu.

The crux of my point is the best thing a movie can do is show, not tell.

[striker42]

I largely agree with your points. But Snoke could be explained in short order. Which was the point.

Similar to Thrawn, you can do like 3 things to establish him. 1 show him being powerful and smart and whatnot. 2. Have him scream something about chiss ascendency and graduating early and at top of his class in imperial academy. 3. A simple mention of the past of being in with Palps, working with Vader and Anakin. whatever. Just a qucik reference to the books that people can read or read abotu.

The crux of my point is the best thing a movie can do is show, not tell.

I agree. I don't think Thrawn needs a huge backstory. There's already enough out there about him so he's not an intentional mystery. You can just have a throw away line about him being an alien tactical genius and the last surviving Grand Admiral and you're done.

I'd really like to see Thrawn get his own show. It would be super interesting to see a show where an Imperial is the protagonist that you root for. Thrawn isn't the typical evil for the sake of evil character. He's a decent guy that's willing to join forces with evil to avoid what he sees as a greater evil.

[zitothebrave]

I agree. I don't think Thrawn needs a huge backstory. There's already enough out there about him so he's not an intentional mystery. You can just have a throw away line about him being an alien tactical genius and the last surviving Grand Admiral and you're done.

I'd really like to see Thrawn get his own show. It would be super interesting to see a show where an Imperial is the protagonist that you root for. Thrawn isn't the typical evil for the sake of evil character. He's a decent guy that's willing to join forces with evil to avoid what he sees as a greater evil.

I think he is evil, because I think ends justify the means crowd is evil. But like you said, he's not a genocidal nazi for the sake of superiority like say Tarkin or evil for the dark side like Palps. Thrawn wouldn't have built the death star as that's a means of terror that he isn't really OK.

I like Thrawn I've read his whole first trilogy and kind of started the second but stopped because of laziness. Also it's well down on the books I need to read. Especially considering I started reading light of the Jedi and stopped 70% of the way through. I'm staring at my book shelf right now and seeing that, Dune, my Lord of the Rings illustrated edition, and so many D&D books that I need to read.

[striker42]

I think he is evil, because I think ends justify the means crowd is evil. But like you said, he's not a genocidal nazi for the sake of superiority like say Tarkin or evil for the dark side like Palps. Thrawn wouldn't have built the death star as that's a means of terror that he isn't really OK.

I like Thrawn I've read his whole first trilogy and kind of started the second but stopped because of laziness. Also it's well down on the books I need to read. Especially considering I started reading light of the Jedi and stopped 70% of the way through. I'm staring at my book shelf right now and seeing that, Dune, my Lord of the Rings illustrated edition, and so many D&D books that I need to read.

He's definitely not a good guy. I'd put him at lawful neutral on the alignment chart. I don't think he cares about good or evil. It's not how his brain works. He's all about order.

I read the Heir to the Empire trilogy and the first Thrawn trilogy (it's fantastic). I read the first of Asendency but got derailed on the second by something else. I probably would need to restart that trilogy at this point.

Have you read Dune before? I really enjoy it. Incredibly rich world but narrative wasn't really Herbert's strength. Still, the world is so interesting that the gaps in the narrative can be excused.