Star Wars Discussion Thread (Spoilers Inside)

[The Chosen One]

How wouldn't it have been interesting? Lucas could have invented force moves. Sidious attacks with force lightning, Yoda uses force shield. Yoda attacks with Force Push and Sidious redirects it. He could have created a whole new form of battle that would have lived on. We're seeing what's supposed to be the 2 most powerful force users in the universe, and they're lightsaber battling. And they're old ass men jumping around like crazy. In Empire Yoda can barely walk. Why couldn't we see something more like a chess match between 2 brilliant minds as in turn with the force as humanly possible. Instead we see dancing with lightsabers. The most interesting part of the battle was the start and right before the end when Sidious is trying to use Forcelightning on Yoda but he's stopping it. THat's the kind of stuff I want to see more of. I love a lightsaber battle, but why? Neither Yoda or Sidious brandished one in the originals. So why?

You ask very silly questions.

The answer is obvious. At the time they were the two strongest force users in the galaxy, and their midichlorian counts were also 2 of the highest.

Did you seem to forget this movie was made in 2003-2004? Lucas maxed out what he could with the CGI back then.

Watching them battle with force lightning and force shield the entire duration of their fight would not have been interesting. Because it's counter this, counter that. A lightsaber fight was a true test of a warrior.

Their fight was a perfect balance of force usage and lightsaber dueling.

And Yoda barely walking around doesn't prove he isn't strong with the force. Physically, Palpatine was severely damaged from Windu bouncing force lightning. But his mastery and knowledge of the force and the dark side continued to allow him to be extremely powerful.

Yoda was 900 years old. And you have to remember him and Obi-Wan were in exile each for 30 plus years. They hadn't used their peak powers in over 30 years, which was why Obi-Wan in ANH was slow and weak and Yoda was brittle and weak.

[jpx7]

At least that one had real actors in it, unlike the first three, except for Darth Vader's voice.

Uhm, dude: Sir Alec Guinness. It doesn't get much more "real actor" than that (and, of course, he was putatively fiercely ambivalent about his role in the whole thing).

[thewupk]

Uhm, dude: Sir Alec Guinness. It doesn't get much more "real actor" than that (and, of course, he was putatively fiercely ambivalent about his role in the whole thing).

Not to mention Peter Cushing. Then of couse the young Harrison Ford who became a box office monster.

[50PoundHead]

Uhm, dude: Sir Alec Guinness. It doesn't get much more "real actor" than that (and, of course, he was putatively fiercely ambivalent about his role in the whole thing).

But he made a crapload of dough because Lucas and the studio gave him 2.25% of the back-end.

[zitothebrave]

Yoda was 900 years old. And you have to remember him and Obi-Wan were in exile each for 30 plus years. They hadn't used their peak powers in over 30 years, which was why Obi-Wan in ANH was slow and weak and Yoda was brittle and weak.

I'm gonna address this point. As the rest is largely asinine.

So for 870 years. Yoda was able to jump super high, do backflips, so on so forth. In 30 years. he went from that to a crippled old man who could barely walk. What you're describing is someone who's 87 and is a peak physical athlete. Mike Trout level. And then 3 years later is a crippled old man. It's not like he was slow moving etc. He was hobbled and crippled. It didn't make sense.

Obi Wan was slow because he was an old Human. He was about 27 (or in peak physical shape for most human athletes) to 57. And he was never limping or anything. He just moved deliberately. It's not remotely comparable to Yoda.

And for as far as the force goes. Yoda says Dagobah is the most pure place in the Galaxy for the Force. So the idea was that Yoda was even stronger with the force at that point.

Again the issue here is we had an opportunity to see something totally new and different. And instead saw something totally unbelievable.An 870 year old largely immobile in 30 years Yoda doing flips and **** battling a 54 year old Man who can jump around like a monkey. It doesn't make sense to have done it that way. If Palpatine could move like that why couldn't Obi-Wan in the originals? We're talking about physical limitations. Not force limitations.

We could have instead of seeing a ridiculous lightsaber battle then Pod chucking, seen new uses for the force. Stuff we couldn't even conceive that would have blown the mind the same way force choke and lightning did when you first saw them.

[zitothebrave]

Not to mention Peter Cushing. Then of couse the young Harrison Ford who became a box office monster.

Or Frank Oz, the most legendary puppeteer and one of the most legendary voice actors of all time. Billie Dee Williams has a heck of a rep too. Not to mention many people in the film like Anthony Daniels and Ian McDermid were incredibly well regarded stage actors before joining Star Wars.

[jpx7]

But he made a crapload of dough because Lucas and the studio gave him 2.25% of the back-end.

He was artistically ambivalent about his involvement; but he was a vet and a pro, he knew what sold, and he was economically savvy about it.

[sturg33]

Zito - I just re-watched the scene... the emperor doesn't jump at all... it's all Yoda

Anywho, I go back and forth on whether Yoda should used a light saber... I enjoyed it though so can't complain too much. But it does take away a bit of his mystique.

[thewupk]

I feel the Yoda fighting scenes are more like 'This would be cool if...' and doesn't really fit the character or timeline. But I felt like there was a lot of that going on in the PT. Just seemed Lucas tried to shoehorn a lot of stuff to make it fit.

[zitothebrave]

Zito - I just re-watched the scene... the emperor doesn't jump at all... it's all Yoda

Anywho, I go back and forth on whether Yoda should used a light saber... I enjoyed it though so can't complain too much. But it does take away a bit of his mystique.

watch at about 1:25. Don't tell me that's consistent with movement we saw in Sir Alec Guinness who's about an equivalent aged human male.

[zitothebrave]

I feel the Yoda fighting scenes are more like 'This would be cool if...' and doesn't really fit the character or timeline. But I felt like there was a lot of that going on in the PT. Just seemed Lucas tried to shoehorn a lot of stuff to make it fit.

And he did it all via walking and talking, sitting and talking, and sometimes fighting and talking.

[zitothebrave]

Lucas's takes on the New Film are so salty.

Seriously George, I'm sorry almost everyone likes the new movie more than any of your 20 year to make prequel abortions. Sorry that real writers were able to do more and the fans and critics both enjoy the movie.

And the sad part is he compared selling his company for billions.

[Runnin]

Uhm, dude: Sir Alec Guinness. It doesn't get much more "real actor" than that (and, of course, he was putatively fiercely ambivalent about his role in the whole thing).

Been waiting for someone to call me on that. Yes, Alec Guinness was excellent. I was referring to the three main characters, whose performances I thought got even worse after the original movie. Han Solo's and the Princess love attraction didn't work at all for me. I thought they had great antagonistic chemistry at first but I never saw any convincing change. The cast took a big step up, I thought, starting in Episode I

After binge watching the whole series this last week the other weak acting sequence for me was the conversion of Anakin into Darth Vader. Just really uninteresting and unmoving. But to be fair to Hayden Christensen, that moral 180' turnabout was a lot more difficult than falling for Natalie Portman.

[The Chosen One]

I'm gonna address this point. As the rest is largely asinine.

So for 870 years. Yoda was able to jump super high, do backflips, so on so forth. In 30 years. he went from that to a crippled old man who could barely walk. What you're describing is someone who's 87 and is a peak physical athlete. Mike Trout level. And then 3 years later is a crippled old man. It's not like he was slow moving etc. He was hobbled and crippled. It didn't make sense.

Obi Wan was slow because he was an old Human. He was about 27 (or in peak physical shape for most human athletes) to 57. And he was never limping or anything. He just moved deliberately. It's not remotely comparable to Yoda.

And for as far as the force goes. Yoda says Dagobah is the most pure place in the Galaxy for the Force. So the idea was that Yoda was even stronger with the force at that point.

Again the issue here is we had an opportunity to see something totally new and different. And instead saw something totally unbelievable.An 870 year old largely immobile in 30 years Yoda doing flips and **** battling a 54 year old Man who can jump around like a monkey. It doesn't make sense to have done it that way. If Palpatine could move like that why couldn't Obi-Wan in the originals? We're talking about physical limitations. Not force limitations.

We could have instead of seeing a ridiculous lightsaber battle then Pod chucking, seen new uses for the force. Stuff we couldn't even conceive that would have blown the mind the same way force choke and lightning did when you first saw them.

Your comparisons are ridiculous.

Obi-Wan and Yoda had not used their peak powers for more than 30 years after ROTS. I believe the novelization of ANH or one of the original movies has a blurb in there about a Jedi not using his powers for a long time, it becomes stagnant and weak.

Both went into seclusion. Yoda and Obi-Wan both had become stronger with the force, in the sense that they had learned what Qui-Gon had which was to become immortal and one with the force (force ghost). That's why Yoda mentions "the path to immortality" and training to Obi-Wan at the end of Revenge of the Sith. That's why when Obi-Wan says to Darth Vader on the Death Star "You can't with Darth, if you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine" he's talking about becoming an immortal force ghost. Now why Anakin had become a force ghost at the end of ROTJ is iffy but I'm not gonna nitpick that.

And you're questioning things about the Force that the series has always been strong about. Those strong with the force, no matter their physical deficiency can maneuver themselves incredibly. Thats what the force is, belief. And on top of that using the energy that life surrounds the body with and harnessing that.

Yoda was walking with his stick and hoverboard in the prequels, but when it came time to fight the force was strong with him. It allowed him to do those "crazy jumping abilities". I can imagine Lucas felt if Yoda were in his prime he would have been even faster. Palpatine was physically deformed from Windu but still just as strong as ever. I do believe by the end of ROTJ Palpatine's powers had stagnated.

Also, Luke is the only known Jedi to have survived a direct attack of force lightning like that in ROTJ. Either Palpatine's powers had weakened, or Luke was just so powerful naturally with the force that he survived what Windu could not.

Lucas has always said in interviews, commentaries, etc. that he envisioned Yoda dueling with a lightsaber when he made the OT's, it's just in the OT Yoda was a puppet and it could not be realized until CGI had become proficient enough to do so.

And as goldfly said earlier, the Jedi are based off of Samurai (actually you could say Star Wars was heavily inspired by Akira Kurosawa's Samurai movies) whom used their swords to duel to the death. THat's exactly what any force users Jedi/Sith do. So I'm glad he put Yoda-Palpatine lightsaber duel in between Force Dueling.

Even during the animated series, Palpatine as Sidious is actually fighting with lightsaber. So it's not comparable to Obi-Wan and Yoda whom for the most part had become isolated hermits. Dooku during AOTC and ROTS was around the same age as Old Ben in ANH if not older. But he kept his craft current and didn't take off for 30 years. That's why he was able to defeat Obi and Ani in EpII, and held his own for a while in EpIII.

[zitothebrave]

Lol your defense of Yoda and Obi-Wan's fighting, was the prequels themself. It's stupid.

Anything tied in after the abomination of the prequels ruins everything after that.

Why didn't Darth Vader fly around? I'm sure you'll say it's because he was more machine than man. But so was General Grievous.

The prequels sucked and ruined most of what was great about Star Wars and the absurd athleticism of Old People was certainly one of if not the biggest ****ups Lucas did.

[The Chosen One]

I feel the Yoda fighting scenes are more like 'This would be cool if...' and doesn't really fit the character or timeline. But I felt like there was a lot of that going on in the PT. Just seemed Lucas tried to shoehorn a lot of stuff to make it fit.

Lucas says that the PT were meant to show what the Jedi had looked like in their peak primes.

The OT, there is no Jedi or Sith that would match that description. Obi wan and Vader were both old and washed up. Luke was raw and Lucas says he didn't have Luke use prequel style choreography to show his greenness to using a lightsaber. That's why it looks like he's clubbing with a stick instead of dueling. Yoda had become old and frail.

In both movies in AOTC and ROTS, Yoda had dueled with the force until it was time to go to the lightsaber. In AOTC it was Dooku whom suggested they switch to lightsaber. In ROTS, Yoda had confronted the Emperor and realized that he could not with with a battle of force using.

And I believe I read a long while ago that Lucas mentioned when Force users are battling, there is an equal balance which is why Force attacks can't be used in fights or why Anakin can't use a force choke in the middle of a fight.

There has to be a balance between a Sith's hate and arrogance to a Jedi's calmness and focus. Only when one side tips the scales more is when fights become unbalanced (ie: Vader turning back to the light). It was said when Yoda and Sidious were on that Senate pod and Yoda was absorbing the force lightning from Sidious there was a complete balance in the force (Sith full offense vs. Jedi full defense) which is why nobody had the upper hand and it was a stalemate. Then for just a moment you see Yoda tap into his own darkside and overpower Sidious but ended up exhausting his own body.

Obi-Wan would not have defeated Maul if he hadn't tapped into his own dark side (hate and aggression after Maul killed his mentor). Same for Anakin killing Dooku.

[The Chosen One]

Lol your defense of Yoda and Obi-Wan's fighting, was the prequels themself. It's stupid.

Anything tied in after the abomination of the prequels ruins everything after that.

Why didn't Darth Vader fly around? I'm sure you'll say it's because he was more machine than man. But so was General Grievous.

The prequels sucked and ruined most of what was great about Star Wars and the absurd athleticism of Old People was certainly one of if not the biggest ****ups Lucas did.

The absurd athleticism of old people to me further enhances the mystique of the force. Yoda viewed immortality/force ghost as more prestigious or powerful than peak physical ability.

And your feelings are exactly what the hell is wrong with Star Wars' narcissistic fanboyism. Criticizing every little thing Lucas ever did. Absurd. The prequels happened, and a lot of people happen to like them. Sorry you're one of those OT fanboys, but I've met plenty of Star Wars fans who did like the prequels and they more common than you think.

Prequel lovers also happen to like the OT.
It's OT fanboys who always talk **** about the prequels that gives Star Wars fans a bad name.

It's so petty and like a 5th grader whining to his teacher (Lucas) that he couldn't get what he wanted in class. The prequels will forever be apart of Star Wars canon however much you want to deny it exists. Until Disney decides to do an X-Men Days of Future Past which wiped out X-Men 3, the prequels exist and I will treat it equally to the OT.

[The Chosen One]

Lucas hasn't really been salty about it.

I think he's still struggling to let go of the franchise. Basically were apart of him and his family. I watched the entire Charlie Rose interview and to me it just seems he's still trying to let go slowly but is letting go. I also think the way Disney treated him (money be damned), was a little bush league.

[zitothebrave]

The absurd athleticism of old people to me further enhances the mystique of the force. Yoda viewed immortality/force ghost as more prestigious or powerful than peak physical ability.

And your feelings are exactly what the hell is wrong with Star Wars' narcissistic fanboyism. Criticizing every little thing Lucas ever did. Absurd. The prequels happened, and a lot of people happen to like them. Sorry you're one of those OT fanboys, but I've met plenty of Star Wars fans who did like the prequels and they more common than you think.

Prequel lovers also happen to like the OT.
It's OT fanboys who always talk **** about the prequels that gives Star Wars fans a bad name.

It's so petty and like a 5th grader whining to his teacher (Lucas) that he couldn't get what he wanted in class. The prequels will forever be apart of Star Wars canon however much you want to deny it exists. Until Disney decides to do an X-Men Days of Future Past which wiped out X-Men 3, the prequels exist and I will treat it equally to the OT.

You skirted around my contention. Why didn't Vader jump around like a Circus acrobat? Why did He had to make the lightsaber throw?

The rest of your post is just nonsense. The Prequels were ****ty. Why in gods name was technology so much better in the prequels than in the originals? I mean seriously. Episode one had a droid who could make a forcefield around him that deflected fire. Why didn't elite storm troopers have that technology? I can understand the clones not having it as they're expendable. But why wouldn't the imperial guard have it or Boba Fett, so on so forth.

I'm sorry, the Prequels overall suck. The only saving grace for the prequels was that the Clone Wars was fantastic and tied up many of the loose ends and made the ****ty movie Anakin transition seem better.

And just cause they exist doesn't mean most of the things that happened in it (old person circus performances) weren't dumb and hopefully won't be continued in the new movies.

[zitothebrave]

Lucas hasn't really been salty about it.

I think he's still struggling to let go of the franchise. Basically were apart of him and his family. I watched the entire Charlie Rose interview and to me it just seems he's still trying to let go slowly but is letting go. I also think the way Disney treated him (money be damned), was a little bush league.

Ummmmmmmmmmmm

He compared selling his films to Disney to selling Children to White Slavers. If that's not salty I odn't know what is.

What Disney did to him was hoenstly the best thing for the movies. Lucas came up with a great universe. But aside from Empire none of the films stand up as a great film. And the prequels where he was directing and primary writer were much more panned than Empire and Jedi where he played second fiddle to Kasden. In Empire he didn't write it at all. And he considers Empire to be the worst of all his films. The man has an ego bigger than the Star Wars universe he created.