Star Wars Discussion Thread (Spoilers Inside)

[striker42]

I mean do you think spending long amount of time in a film talking about a prophecy is good filmmaking?

Reality is Occam's razor is true, the reason Luke went into exile was shame.

You don't need long. In less than 30 seconds you could do a flashback of Luke having a Force vision and showing he would need to train Rey.

Even if you wanted to have shame be Luke's motivation, that doesn't mean he has to be an angry, bitter old man. If you make Luke the same likable character he was in the original trilogy just with motivations to exile, I think you solve a lot of the problems of The Last Jedi. The Luke was saw was so different it wasn't even the same character.

[zitothebrave]

You don't need long. In less than 30 seconds you could do a flashback of Luke having a Force vision and showing he would need to train Rey.

Even if you wanted to have shame be Luke's motivation, that doesn't mean he has to be an angry, bitter old man. If you make Luke the same likable character he was in the original trilogy just with motivations to exile, I think you solve a lot of the problems of The Last Jedi. The Luke was saw was so different it wasn't even the same character.

Ah yes, my temple is destroyed, my nephew is a murderous villain, but I get a force vision and now I'll go hide in a nearly impossible to find place so a chosen one could find me, even though the Cosmic force is dormant. Let's explain all that away with a short vision scene. That makes a ton of sense.

[striker42]

Ah yes, my temple is destroyed, my nephew is a murderous villain, but I get a force vision and now I'll go hide in a nearly impossible to find place so a chosen one could find me, even though the Cosmic force is dormant. Let's explain all that away with a short vision scene. That makes a ton of sense.

It makes 10,000 times more sense than Luke trying to kill his innocent nephew in a few second flashback then becoming a bitter old recluse who abandons everyone he's ever loved and allows evil to take hold in the galaxy.

[zitothebrave]

It makes 10,000 times more sense than Luke trying to kill his innocent nephew in a few second flashback then becoming a bitter old recluse who abandons everyone he's ever loved and allows evil to take hold in the galaxy.

Not really. Again, I don't agree with the direction JJ and Kasden took Luke, I would have rather had Luke make a huge sacrifice in Ep 7, and Han come in in Ep 8 like Luke. But JJ and Kasden didn't want Luke so they went adn put him into exile. Sure you could ahve come up with a write around, but the clearest path was Luke was what Johnson did.

[striker42]

Not really. Again, I don't agree with the direction JJ and Kasden took Luke, I would have rather had Luke make a huge sacrifice in Ep 7, and Han come in in Ep 8 like Luke. But JJ and Kasden didn't want Luke so they went adn put him into exile. Sure you could ahve come up with a write around, but the clearest path was Luke was what Johnson did.

Except that it totally rewrote who Luke was. Would Luke have tried to murder his innocent nephew? Would Luke have shut himself off from The Force? Would Luke have abandoned his friends to their fates? You would have needed a whole trilogy dedicated to nothing but Luke's fall to get him to that point. It felt very akin to Anakin going from Jedi Knight to murdering children in an afternoon. It's a change in the character that's so stark that it doesn't feel authentic.

Rian Johnson didn't seem to want to use what he was given. I can understand if he thinks boy scout Luke is boring. Johnson likes to try to jerk his audiences around. The fact that he doesn't walk well trod paths is why critics (who have to sit through countless movies) love him. Luke, with everything we knew about him going into Episode VIII, was not a character Johnson would have much use for. It's very difficult to do the subversion of expectations Johnson loves with a character who is as predictable as the sun. For Johnson to make the movie he wanted to make he had to change Luke into someone he wasn't.

This is why I think Johnson would have been better off with his own movie like Rogue One rather than being given a movie with existing major characters.

[zitothebrave]

Except that it totally rewrote who Luke was. Would Luke have tried to murder his innocent nephew? Would Luke have shut himself off from The Force? Would Luke have abandoned his friends to their fates? You would have needed a whole trilogy dedicated to nothing but Luke's fall to get him to that point. It felt very akin to Anakin going from Jedi Knight to murdering children in an afternoon. It's a change in the character that's so stark that it doesn't feel authentic.

Rian Johnson didn't seem to want to use what he was given. I can understand if he thinks boy scout Luke is boring. Johnson likes to try to jerk his audiences around. The fact that he doesn't walk well trod paths is why critics (who have to sit through countless movies) love him. Luke, with everything we knew about him going into Episode VIII, was not a character Johnson would have much use for. It's very difficult to do the subversion of expectations Johnson loves with a character who is as predictable as the sun. For Johnson to make the movie he wanted to make he had to change Luke into someone he wasn't.

This is why I think Johnson would have been better off with his own movie like Rogue One rather than being given a movie with existing major characters.

We've discussed this ad nauseum. Luke has tapped into his "instinct" his "dark side" before and walked back. Look at the battle in RotJ. He almost struck down unarmed Palpatine, he tapped into the darkside overpowering and chopping off Vader's hand before coming back to the light. It's not even remotely out of character for Luke to react out of instinct or be tempted by the dark side. As far as leaving people and cutting himself off from the force, it wsa probably what Luke thought would be best for his family. Especially after failing in training Ben.

Again, all the lines are there. You don't agree of course. But Luke being a recluse who feels that he is too dangerous is probable. Unlike Anakin, Luke doesn't have that same Hubris. If he believed that Snoke woudl come for him and send Ben, woulnd't the best protection be to separate himself from Leia?

[striker42]

We've discussed this ad nauseum. Luke has tapped into his "instinct" his "dark side" before and walked back. Look at the battle in RotJ. He almost struck down unarmed Palpatine, he tapped into the darkside overpowering and chopping off Vader's hand before coming back to the light. It's not even remotely out of character for Luke to react out of instinct or be tempted by the dark side. As far as leaving people and cutting himself off from the force, it wsa probably what Luke thought would be best for his family. Especially after failing in training Ben.

Again, all the lines are there. You don't agree of course. But Luke being a recluse who feels that he is too dangerous is probable. Unlike Anakin, Luke doesn't have that same Hubris. If he believed that Snoke woudl come for him and send Ben, woulnd't the best protection be to separate himself from Leia?

Luke doesn't run away when someone's in danger. Luke runs towards danger.

Luke finds out his Aunt and Uncle are in danger, he jumps in a speeder and heads towards them then decides to become a Jedi and fight the Empire.

Luke finds out Leia is on the Death Star and convinces Han to attempt a daring rescue.

Luke joins Red Squadron and makes a virtually suicidal attack on the Death Star.

Luke has a Force vision of Leia and Han in danger and runs to Cloud City.

Luke joins a commando group being inserted covertly onto Endor.

Luke turns himself in to try to save his father.

All of that and we're to believe he suddenly becomes an old recluse and lets his sister stand alone against Snoke? His best protection of Leia might be to separate from her but it sure wouldn't be to run and hide on an island. Luke would have thrown himself at Snoke even if it meant his own death. I had a lot of problems with The Last Jedi but this more than anything else was what bothered me.

[zitothebrave]

Or you know Luke felt like that by turning away from the force a different lightside power would rise (Rey, the kid at the end of Episode 8, etc.) to best Snoke and Kylo.

Of course Luke realized the error in his ways. As he realized the error in his ways leaving his training early. So on so forth.

As far as Leia vs. Snoke, perhaps he knew Leia would be the better leader. She was the leader in Ep 4-6. Luke was more like a targeted missile.

[zitothebrave]

[zitothebrave]

[zitothebrave]

[zitothebrave]

OK I posted a lot of **** memes. **** memes are great. But this video is really great. They did a rock solid job analyzing Kylo.

[striker42]

Can Dallas Bryce Howard get a Star Wars movie already?

[zitothebrave]

Can Dallas Bryce Howard get a Star Wars movie already?

She's still developing as a director, but she's smart. I don't know if straight to feature is the way. But we've had worse directors in Star Wars.

[striker42]

She's still developing as a director, but she's smart. I don't know if straight to feature is the way. But we've had worse directors in Star Wars.

She's directed two of the best episodes of The Mandalorian. I'd much rather see Howard than Patty Jenkins directing a feature. Especially after Wonder Woman 2.

But it would be a risk giving Howard a feature. Still, it has worked for Marvel. Lots of directors got their big breaks on Marvel movies.

[zitothebrave]

Patty Jenkins is established. Sure Wonder Woman 1984 was a dud. It wasn't a trainwreck (though damn the Chris Pine Story Line was cringy and rapey) but aside from the first Wonderwoman, She's also directed Monster and was highly regarded before a few jobs fell through and she took a pregnancy break. Then she started directing TV.

[striker42]

Patty Jenkins is established. Sure Wonder Woman 1984 was a dud. It wasn't a trainwreck (though damn the Chris Pine Story Line was cringy and rapey) but aside from the first Wonderwoman, She's also directed Monster and was highly regarded before a few jobs fell through and she took a pregnancy break. Then she started directing TV.

I would call Wonder Woman 1984 a trainwreck. Did no one stop for a second and think that maybe jets at museums don't have fuel in them, not to mention oil and other fluids that would be drained before putting a jet on display! Then there's the flight through the fireworks. You're in a jet and would likely be traveling hundreds of miles per hour. You'd be through the fireworks in a matter of a second or two. Or the fact that you can't fly from DC to Egypt without refueling.

And the whole wishing thing was just ridiculous. The script was just terrible.

Patty Jenkins was a slam dunk get for Kennedy before 1984. A woman director who had successfully directed a big budget action movie was exactly what Kennedy wanted to bring to Star Wars. But 1984 has Rise of Skywalker level issues. That could be a bad mix for a universe with fans as pedantic as Star Wars fans.

[zitothebrave]

I would call Wonder Woman 1984 a trainwreck. Did no one stop for a second and think that maybe jets at museums don't have fuel in them, not to mention oil and other fluids that would be drained before putting a jet on display! Then there's the flight through the fireworks. You're in a jet and would likely be traveling hundreds of miles per hour. You'd be through the fireworks in a matter of a second or two. Or the fact that you can't fly from DC to Egypt without refueling.

And the whole wishing thing was just ridiculous. The script was just terrible.

Patty Jenkins was a slam dunk get for Kennedy before 1984. A woman director who had successfully directed a big budget action movie was exactly what Kennedy wanted to bring to Star Wars. But 1984 has Rise of Skywalker level issues. That could be a bad mix for a universe with fans as pedantic as Star Wars fans.

I thought the wishing thing was a good concept. The problem was why did Chris Pine have to come back in someone elses body?

I don't have a ton of issues with the rest. It's dumb, but it's a comic book movie, they get a lot of stretchiness.

Consider In Infinity War when Captain America catches Thanos's hand while he has the power stone. The same man who pulled the Hulk off him couldn't over power Captain AMerica?

[zitothebrave]

https://lrmonline.com/news/rian-john...for-episode-9/

[striker42]

https://lrmonline.com/news/rian-john...for-episode-9/

This should put the nail in Kennedy's coffin. How on earth do you have a trilogy where no one has any idea what they're doing from one movie to the next?

This really explains why the movies were like the game in elementary school where you go around telling a story one sentence at a time. It's always a mess.