bravesnumberone (11-13-2015), FreemanFan (11-12-2015), holden (11-13-2015), Hudson2 (11-12-2015), jpx7 (11-13-2015), Metaphysicist (11-13-2015)
Without going into great detail (will be glad to elaborate later), I calculate Simmons' expected surplus value for the life of his contract at 6-7 WAR. Various studies that have evaluated the surplus value of prospects suggest the expected surplus value of what we are getting back is in a similar range. Of course the way in which this surplus value is likely to be distributed by year differs quite a bit on the two sides of the deal, which is why both teams found it in their interest to do the deal. There is more upside (and uncertainty) with what we are getting back (basically Newcomb). His control issues worry me some but in a perfect universe he could end up being a Randy Johnson type pitcher. The one thing that nags at me a little is I don't think Simmons is the finished product as a hitter. I've seen his hitting approach evolve quite a bit and I thought he showed some progress last year.
Last edited by nsacpi; 11-12-2015 at 11:02 PM.
holden (11-13-2015), jpx7 (11-13-2015), Runnin (11-12-2015), The Chosen One (11-12-2015)
The deal in a vacuum is fine. We're not competing for 3-4 years so might as well deal Simmons now. We got some high upside back (finally).
But the deal in context makes less sense. We are not going to spend money on offense. And we have FEW assets to trade to acquire offense. And yet, time after time, we keep using them for more pitching. The FO has gone overboard with a pitching craze.
I heard the deal go down just before I stopped off to see Spectre, so after having a couple hours to mull over the trade (and watch Craig kick ass), I'm not overly against it.
Originally, I wanted to destroy everything in site - as did 90% of this board - but I do like what I see with both of these guys and it sounds like with Aybar, we will either get a solid SS for a year (maybe extend) or at least get something in return.
IF it was not for the Olivera trade, I am on board with all of this completely. That trade is the one thing I just don't understand... if we have Peraza and Wood still, this farm is just insane and our rotation pretty much set!
Hudson2 (11-12-2015)
Okay but did we really lose any offense from this trade? We already have Albies who should be an offensive improvement at SS when he gets to Atlanta. The outfield corners look set for the next 3 years with Markakis and Olivera. Mallex is a quality CF prospect with significant time at AAA already. We have Maybin with a cheap option for 2015. Peterson should improve at 2B. Freeman is coming into his prime. I think Newcomb will be in our rotation before the end of the year and if he shows promise it will be easier to trade other pitching.
"Donald Trump will serve a second term as president of the United States.
It’s over."
Little Thethe Nov 19, 2020.
We didn't lose an offensive, but we lost arguably our best asset to acquire any.
The only sure thing we have on offense is Freeman, and if I were him, I'd contemplate even showing up. The Braves bought out his prime years only to tear down the team to what will likely be 4-5 years of awfulness.
DirkPiggler (11-13-2015)
Did we lose offense? Not really. But as sturg said we did lose assests to acquire more hitting and also created another hole among our position players. Hopefully Albies can fill that but it's no guarantee. And even if he is a better hitter I doubt he will be a better player. 3-4 WAR players aren't that easily replaceable.
I'm mostly fine with this deal. As a few others have mentioned, I'm not totally against all of this if the Olivera deal didn't happen. He's going to be 33-35 years old before we start competing. What's the point of that?
Mark Simon from ESPN tweeted something yesterday pointing out that two years ago we won 96 games with the youngest average age of position players and third youngest average age for starting pitchers. Now here we are. I guess I'm mostly just confused about how all of this happened. We went from the future looking bright two years ago while winning big to now hoping the future is bright years down the road.
When the Simmons rumors started, most people were in the camp of "I'm ok with trading him, as long as it's a clear win for the Braves"
I think this deal is probably a fair value... but it's not a slam dunk deal for us to have made. And we made it really early. Simmons wasn't going anywhere
bravesnumberone (11-13-2015), jpx7 (11-13-2015)
The drop off from Simmons to Aybar will be like Furcal to "sure handed" Renteria and Heyward to "Good Glove" Markakis.
Forever Fredi
Metaphysicist (11-13-2015)
bravesnumberone (11-13-2015), jpx7 (11-13-2015)